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  #11  
Old 04-02-2013, 09:49 PM
ratchetmaster2 ratchetmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
Ok, then what is the difference in the 3 brands named above?
Engineering design: Was it designed to be powerful, or long-lasting? Cheap, or durable?
Quality control, gauge of steel used, quality of steel.
Source of motors: solid connecting rods or hollow rods? well-balanced crankshafts? crank bearing clearance? fitment of oil and compression piston rings? All bolts and fasteners double checked for proper torque specs?
Overhead valve? camshaft? pushrod? How about the timing chain guides?
Circulation of oil: crankshaft first? valves first? Adequate oil pressure?
Are the timing components subject to breakdown from exposure to heat?
What about the hydraulic fluid?
Is the carburetor from a quality company? Constant velocity carb?
Is the deck rust-proofed?
Are the wheels wide, or narrow? How do they affect the lawn?
Do the aerodynamics of the deck positively or negatively affect the cut of the lawn?
Are the bearings in the spindles quality? Do they need maintenance regularly?
Does the mower have many plastic pieces?
Does the mower have out-standing parts that would be easy to bump and break?

Notice how none of these characteristics have anything to do with the guy who sells you the mower.

You know what does have a major impact on the life of the mower: the owner.

Are you a careful owner? Do you check and inspect the mower regularly? Do you check the oil level and color? Do you protect it from the elements? Do you use it AS DESIGNED or do you abuse it because "it's commercial, it can take it". Do you perform, or have done, regular maintenance? Do you check the spark plug regularly for proper color? Do you check tire pressure? Check the air filter?

All machines have an end. What really matters is how it was taken care of. A low quality machine can last forever if well taken care of. A commercial mower can blow up with barely any hours (as often happens) if an idiot runs it out of oil.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:14 PM
SECTLANDSCAPING SECTLANDSCAPING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post
Engineering design: Was it designed to be powerful, or long-lasting? Cheap, or durable?
Quality control, gauge of steel used, quality of steel.
Source of motors: solid connecting rods or hollow rods? well-balanced crankshafts? crank bearing clearance? fitment of oil and compression piston rings? All bolts and fasteners double checked for proper torque specs?
Overhead valve? camshaft? pushrod? How about the timing chain guides?
Circulation of oil: crankshaft first? valves first? Adequate oil pressure?
Are the timing components subject to breakdown from exposure to heat?
What about the hydraulic fluid?
Is the carburetor from a quality company? Constant velocity carb?
Is the deck rust-proofed?
Are the wheels wide, or narrow? How do they affect the lawn?
Do the aerodynamics of the deck positively or negatively affect the cut of the lawn?
Are the bearings in the spindles quality? Do they need maintenance regularly?
Does the mower have many plastic pieces?
Does the mower have out-standing parts that would be easy to bump and break?

Notice how none of these characteristics have anything to do with the guy who sells you the mower.

You know what does have a major impact on the life of the mower: the owner.

Are you a careful owner? Do you check and inspect the mower regularly? Do you check the oil level and color? Do you protect it from the elements? Do you use it AS DESIGNED or do you abuse it because "it's commercial, it can take it". Do you perform, or have done, regular maintenance? Do you check the spark plug regularly for proper color? Do you check tire pressure? Check the air filter?

All machines have an end. What really matters is how it was taken care of. A low quality machine can last forever if well taken care of. A commercial mower can blow up with barely any hours (as often happens) if an idiot runs it out of oil.
The differences between the brands are little to none. I bet they all have the same carbs, wheel motors, hydraulic pumps, etc.

We're talking new mowers here. Now your going on about maintenance. Doesnt mean jack when buying a new mower. It will make it last but wont change the brand printed on it. No one asked how to take care of a mower. The question is about quality. You can try to dress a turd up all you want it will always be a turd.

None of what your saying has anything to do with the different manufactures. Hes not asking about World Lawn or even residential mowers. Dixie, Gravely and Toro, all make good commercial mowers. I wouldnt buy a dixie because I cant walk into a place and buy a part the same day if it was needed. Has nothing to do with the air filters.
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:21 PM
CGT_Limited CGT_Limited is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post
So you're saying it's ok to buy a mower of lower quality, just so long as there is a friendly dealership there to take your money to fix it?

I don't agree with your statement. Quality is quality. How nice Jimmy (the kid who answers the phone at the dealership) is, has zero impact on the quality of my mower.

Is it ok to buy a crappy house, just so long as Home Depot is happy to sell you some new lumber?

The dealerships still play a role in the selection of a mower and service, but I wouldn't put that above the quality of the product at hand. There's a reason they are called stealerships. Buy quality, that's all there is to it. You want your customers to hire you based on quality, so you should do the same when shopping, especially for equipment.
I agree with Ratchet.

We have always owned and always will buy Exmark, no matter what. Not to mention the quality, but the dealership is top notch customer service. Just one example is our 2 year mower that blew a Kawi engine last year. Fought for us for 3 weeks with Kawi to replace it under warranty and they did.

Yes, parts are more, but you get what you pay for. We have a few riders that are 7 years old with over 3000 hours on them that still cut excellent.
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Family owned business established in 1983 based in Lakeville, MN. Servicing Minneapolis South Metro area working in Grounds Maintenance including fertilization and spraying, Landscaping, Hard Scapes, Irrigation, Water Features, Concrete Work, Weatherization, and Association Management.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:26 PM
SECTLANDSCAPING SECTLANDSCAPING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGT_Limited View Post
I agree with Ratchet.

We have always owned and always will buy Exmark, no matter what. Not to mention the quality, but the dealership is top notch customer service. Just one example is our 2 year mower that blew a Kawi engine last year. Fought for us for 3 weeks with Kawi to replace it under warranty and they did.

Yes, parts are more, but you get what you pay for. We have a few riders that are 7 years old with over 3000 hours on them that still cut excellent.
Sounds like you agree with WandF. Ratchet thinks dealers play no part.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:26 PM
kslawn kslawn is offline
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just saying...still like the bobcat, used them for 14 yrs with my old employer & for the last 11 yrs for myself, A Quality Mower they are..does not hirt to get a demo here & there! gas/diesel? still a personal preference at that point... I've had good luck with Kohler/gas.. wandfsmall, you got those prices? I like not having any payments right now but dont hurt to check! & am curious about the warranty to price ratio.....let me know...
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:29 PM
CGT_Limited CGT_Limited is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
Sounds like you agree with WandF. Ratchet thinks dealers play no part.
LOL....yeah, about the quality part!
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:03 PM
ratchetmaster2 ratchetmaster2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
The differences between the brands are little to none. I bet they all have the same carbs, wheel motors, hydraulic pumps, etc.

We're talking new mowers here. Now your going on about maintenance. Doesnt mean jack when buying a new mower. It will make it last but wont change the brand printed on it. No one asked how to take care of a mower. The question is about quality. You can try to dress a turd up all you want it will always be a turd.

None of what your saying has anything to do with the different manufactures. Hes not asking about World Lawn or even residential mowers. Dixie, Gravely and Toro, all make good commercial mowers. I wouldnt buy a dixie because I cant walk into a place and buy a part the same day if it was needed. Has nothing to do with the air filters.
You just contradicted yourself several times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
I bet they all have the same carbs, wheel motors, hydraulic pumps, etc...I wouldnt buy a dixie because I cant walk into a place and buy a part the same day if it was needed
If the parts are all the same anyway, why not just go to a different dealership for the part?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
The differences between the brands are little to none....wont change the brand printed on it.....The question is about quality
Again, if all the mowers are the same, then what does the brand name mean? If all the mowers are the same, then the question about quality is a null and void question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
your going on about maintenance. Doesnt mean jack when buying a new mower. It will make it last
"maintenance...will make it last". ....Isn't that the MAJOR concern? How long a mower will last? Isn't that the only thing you care about when you buy a mower...or anything? Sure, you might consider ease of use, posture, cut quality, but if you tell someone (and it's true) "this mower will last for one million years" they will buy it without question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
Sounds like you agree with WandF. Ratchet thinks dealers play no part.
That's not true. I NEVER said "Dealers play no part". I said that considering buying a brand based on dealer support should be a much lesser concern.
Of course, nobody wants to buy a machine they can't order parts for.
This is 2013, the internet exists. You can buy any part for a machine you want.
WandF puts dealer networks before quality. CGT clearly said that he chooses Exmark because they are top-quality. Then he said that it took him 3 weeks of fighting for the motor to be replaced. How is he agreeing with WandF?

Last edited by ratchetmaster2; 04-02-2013 at 11:08 PM.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:51 PM
SECTLANDSCAPING SECTLANDSCAPING is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post

If the parts are all the same anyway, why not just go to a different dealership for the part?
if you want to play stupid. Zama makes almost all handheld carbs it doesnt mean theyll all fit and work with different brands. Zama doesnt have a store. A Stihl dealer should have all that fit their models but will they carry a zama redmax carb? They sure the heck wont have a engine part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post
Again, if all the mowers are the same, then what does the brand name mean? If all the mowers are the same, then the question about quality is a null and void question.
The three mower brands probably all use parker pumps. Again theres not a parker pump store. The connections might be different, the mounting might be different but its the same quality part.

I said the commercial brands arent much different. Theres a big difference between a zmaster and timecutter. Same brand completely different. Or any mower vs a world lawn like I said.

I would pay more attention to the engine brand then the mower itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post
"maintenance...will make it last". ....Isn't that the MAJOR concern? How long a mower will last? Isn't that the only thing you care about when you buy a mower...or anything? Sure, you might consider ease of use, posture, cut quality, but if you tell someone (and it's true) "this mower will last for one million years" they will buy it without question.
You could say hey ill get a homeowner mower and baby and it will last. Others on here are doing that with this thinking of I rather buy a new homedepot mower and maintain it myself then deal with a used commercial mower that I dont know the history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratchetmaster2 View Post
That's not true. I NEVER said "Dealers play no part". I said that considering buying a brand based on dealer support should be a much lesser concern.
Of course, nobody wants to buy a machine they can't order parts for.
This is 2013, the internet exists. You can buy any part for a machine you want.
WandF puts dealer networks before quality. CGT clearly said that he chooses Exmark because they are top-quality. Then he said that it took him 3 weeks of fighting for the motor to be replaced. How is he agreeing with WandF?
hes agreeing with wandf because his dealer fought for him if you read right.

If something breaks during a job your going to quit. Go home and order it online and then wait for it in the mail to get back to work?

If I buy a dixie which has no dealer within 500 miles and I need to get warrantied work. Do I ship it? I have a dealer that will pick up my broken equipment on site and bring a loaner.

I bought my last blower 30 miles away because the closer dealers said the warranty only covers manufacture defects. The third dealer says if you dont throw it in a lake or run it with no oil. We'll cover it! These were all the same brand and same blower. Just a different level or service. A good relationship with a dealer will pay its weight in gold.
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  #19  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:52 PM
SNethercutt SNethercutt is offline
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I use gravely. American made. Lifetime deck warranty. I have never had a bad experience at any of their service departments/dealers. They are lower in price but in my opinion great quality machines.

At this point in time I will never use anything but gravely for my mowers. My dad has a commercial toro, and he likes my gravely 10x better. And I like my gravely 50x better than my bad boy. Yes it is all preference and what's available to you. Remember thought. Whatever you buy, buy it local. A lot better service later down the road.

I'm surprised nobody on here runs gravely.I would say 60% of lawn company's down here run them.
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2013, 06:36 AM
LawnBoy0311 LawnBoy0311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
I said the commercial brands arent much different. Theres a big difference between a zmaster and timecutter. Same brand completely different. Or any mower vs a world lawn like I said.

I would pay more attention to the engine brand then the mower itself.


You could say hey ill get a homeowner mower and baby and it will last. Others on here are doing that with this thinking of I rather buy a new homedepot mower and maintain it myself then deal with a used commercial mower that I dont know the history.


If something breaks during a job your going to quit. Go home and order it online and then wait for it in the mail to get back to work?

If I buy a dixie which has no dealer within 500 miles and I need to get warrantied work. Do I ship it? I have a dealer that will pick up my broken equipment on site and bring a loaner.

I bought my last blower 30 miles away because the closer dealers said the warranty only covers manufacture defects. The third dealer says if you dont throw it in a lake or run it with no oil. We'll cover it! These were all the same brand and same blower. Just a different level or service. A good relationship with a dealer will pay its weight in gold.
I bought my mower because of the name. I don't know what a zmaster is. Maybe a Zoro Master? I don't own a sword or a cape though. I bought the timecutter because I was looking to cut time. The name says it all.

In all seriousness (if thats a word), SECT is right. The dealer played a HUGE part in my choice. If something were to ever happen, the dealer is a 6 minute drive. From advice from a buddy, he said Kohler recently has been putting out better engines (I think not so much on the courage????? not too sure...). Engine types playes a big role too.

The dealers are here to support YOU. They need your business for them to stay in business. While ordering parts online may be a couple bucks cheaper, the dealer can get you up and running faster of give you a loaner.
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