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I hate Subs


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  #11  
Old 01-19-2012, 03:02 PM
SECTLANDSCAPING SECTLANDSCAPING is offline
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What is your view on why they are so difficult to deal with? Also, can you tell ahead of time when you hire them if they are going to be problematic?
I havent figured it out yet. I see it like this though if there a guy with a plow there more likely to have a bad work ethic then another business. Another business might put there customers first though.

I talked to 5 subs with hopes of taking on 2. I did rule out one with just a conversation. He never did lots, didnt have a sander, and was the cheapest. The one I'm leaning towards is the most expensive but sounds like the most reliable. There a excavating company that have experience with large lots. I hinted that we could potentially use them for other projects.

I also looked at 3 trucks but didnt like any of them. There overpriced and wont last long. It seems like a waste to me.
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2012, 06:43 PM
TiedemanLLC TiedemanLLC is offline
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Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
I havent figured it out yet. I see it like this though if there a guy with a plow there more likely to have a bad work ethic then another business. Another business might put there customers first though.

I talked to 5 subs with hopes of taking on 2. I did rule out one with just a conversation. He never did lots, didnt have a sander, and was the cheapest. The one I'm leaning towards is the most expensive but sounds like the most reliable. There a excavating company that have experience with large lots. I hinted that we could potentially use them for other projects.

I also looked at 3 trucks but didnt like any of them. There overpriced and wont last long. It seems like a waste to me.
I do agree that most of my problems come from when they put their clients before mine. Another big thing is that they think I won't be looking at their work on the jobsite, so they cut corners. The worst is when they make promises of when they are going to be there, I then tell my clients the approximate time, and then they never show up.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2012, 02:31 PM
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I do agree that most of my problems come from when they put their clients before mine.
With such situations, would it be possible to pay less if the job is not completed by a certain time? Or no?
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:02 PM
TiedemanLLC TiedemanLLC is offline
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With such situations, would it be possible to pay less if the job is not completed by a certain time? Or no?
It may come back and back fire. They may decide that it's not worth the chance.
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Old 01-20-2012, 06:17 PM
SECTLANDSCAPING SECTLANDSCAPING is offline
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It may come back and back fire. They may decide that it's not worth the chance.
I had a guy that was in the area and said he would clear a lot for me. From 4 a.m till 8 a.m he played games. After giving up on the guy I finally was able to make it there at 9:30 and the client was pissed. I ended up losing a contract with them and this one is close to being gone.

I had 6 people fill out applications. Talked to them all asking if they would be ready tonight. They all told me yes. Then when I started calling not one would pick up the phone. I was already short staffed and a truck went down. I was scrambling to find help. Finally a guy from Rhode Island showed up at 5 am. I couldve sent him to the above location but the other guy said he was 5 minutes away. Then time went by and I went up myself to find the lot was untouched.
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Old 01-20-2012, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SECTLANDSCAPING View Post
I had a guy that was in the area and said he would clear a lot for me. From 4 a.m till 8 a.m he played games. After giving up on the guy I finally was able to make it there at 9:30 and the client was pissed. I ended up losing a contract with them and this one is close to being gone.

I had 6 people fill out applications. Talked to them all asking if they would be ready tonight. They all told me yes. Then when I started calling not one would pick up the phone. I was already short staffed and a truck went down. I was scrambling to find help. Finally a guy from Rhode Island showed up at 5 am. I couldve sent him to the above location but the other guy said he was 5 minutes away. Then time went by and I went up myself to find the lot was untouched.
I feel your pain. The last two years have been horrible with me and subs. With plowing I have used six subs in the last five years on one property alone. It's a doctors office that opens up at 5am so it needs to be done. Seriously, how hard is it to have the snow removed before 4am?

The other subs that I always go through are irrigation companies. The worst is when they tell me when they are going to be there, so I have to go over to shut off the security system, but then they never show up. No phone call, no answering their phone, nothing.

This year we are really pulling everything back in house though. This may be our last year using subs.
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  #17  
Old 01-21-2012, 10:15 PM
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This year we are really pulling everything back in house though. This may be our last year using subs.
Thats what I was trying to do but I didnt have any luck finding a new truck. In a way its cheaper short term to hire a subcontractor. I paid one sub for two storms almost what I spent on repairs for one truck in a week.

It can even happen with a employee. Today one of my better guys walked off the job because I wouldnt do something his way. Some people have nerve.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:32 AM
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Thats what I was trying to do but I didnt have any luck finding a new truck. In a way its cheaper short term to hire a subcontractor. I paid one sub for two storms almost what I spent on repairs for one truck in a week.

It can even happen with a employee. Today one of my better guys walked off the job because I wouldnt do something his way. Some people have nerve.
I know what you mean about using subs. The cost is just so much better. But lately with the lack of control, and the lack of quality we are going to pull it in. We realize that the up front cost to get everything back in house will be large, but in the long term it will be better for us. It's almost like starting all over again.
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Old 01-22-2012, 11:48 AM
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i mentioned in earlier posts in other threads that i know this dude who has a multi million dollar snow business. 95% of his properties is done by subs.

he hires subs to do each individual task and he has it broken into routes and has owner drivers with trucks, owner operators with machines and he even has seperate crews subbed out for the walks.

he also hires them based on his needs where as if the route is pretty set with "A" subs then he would build a "B" list of secondary subs for no shows and break downs as well as if it is a long snow event and guys need to take breaks.

i know you may be reading this saying " what does this have to do with a little guy like me that just needs a guy or two for extra help ", but my point is everyone that works for him signs a contract and unless all the paperwork is in place you will not work and he will use someone else.

the snow shovel routes are set in stone and the pay varies based on the depth of snow and the drivers and operators get varying rates based on plow size and machine size as well as if they have their own workers comp insurance or if they don't he takes a cut to include you on his coverage.

he has a very nice system in place and the contracts he uses cover all the bases and can be used for any business size big or small.
he also works out of three states NJ,NY and PA so his contracts take into consideration the different and various labor laws and such.

i used to work for him years ago when i had a truck i wanted to keep moving and i have a copy of his full sub contractor agreement so if i can figure out how to scan it and get it into the talking picture box i will post it up for all to use.
and if i can not figure it out i'll mail it to you if you like.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:10 PM
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i have a copy of his full sub contractor agreement so if i can figure out how to scan it and get it into the talking picture box i will post it up for all to use.
That would be great to see and I am sure it would be helpful. If you can, either scan it or take a picture of it and attach it. Thanks!
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