Lawn Care Business Forum Lawn Care Business Book Lawn Care Business Blog Lawn Care Software
Home Forum Contract & Flyer Templates Blog Software Videos Podcast Calculators / Estimators Store Mower Review Design It Yourself Lawn Business School

Go Back   GopherHaul Landscaping & Lawn Care Business Marketing Forum > Business > General Business Discussions

General Business Discussions A place to talk about general business discussions.

$10 a Lawn and making a profit!


General Business Discussions

A place to talk about general business discussions.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #11  
Old 02-19-2010, 09:57 PM
psparaco psparaco is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Rosedale, Maryland
Age: 37
Posts: 199
Rep Power: 6
psparaco is on a distinguished road
Default

I would never in a million years charge $10 a cut. the lowest i've ever charged is $20. ok sure 10 bucks more. but keep in mind. the properties i service are all rental townhomes. middle of group townhomes have about 900 sq.ft. of lawn for 20. end of group had about 3500 sqft and takes me an extra 5 min to do the overall job. i am a 1 man crew and sometimes 2 when my fiance helps me during the school days while our daughter is in school. alone i can drive to the property (2-4 min form home) unload(2 min) trim (3-5 min), mow (5-10 min), cleanup (2-3 min), load my equipment back in my car (2 min) and we off to the next property which is usually 30 seconds to 1 min away and sometimes as i set up my routes. i park my car and knock out 4 lawns in one chunk. so on average i spend 16-26 min per property if you add up the total time amounts. if my fiance helps me. cut that time in half. she usually mows while i trim and cleanup on several properties all within feet of each other. the luxury of doing townhomes. i didnt base muy price off nothing but just deciding from the git go. 20 middles, 25 ends. last year i had 22 clients. this year i have 19 ( from last year) 3 people canceled my service cause they moved to where they didnt need a lawn guy.
Reply With Quote

Stop guess-timating. Learn how to estimate and make money! $$$
Mow Time Estimator Lawn Care Price Estimator Mulch and Topsoil Calculator Snow Plow Estimate Calculator


  #12  
Old 02-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Steve's Avatar
Steve Steve is online now
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 35,752
Rep Power: 10
Steve has disabled reputation
Default

Lawn care business tipsLawn Care Business Book
Would charging this rate allow for having business insurance and paying taxes or is this concept based on doing everything under the table?

Also what are you thinking one could make as a salary at the end of the year charging such rates?
__________________
- Subscribe to my Lawn Care Marketing Blog Feed and get daily tips sent to you. Free!
Download your Free trial of Gopher Lawn Care Software.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-20-2010, 10:40 AM
JP Landscaping JP Landscaping is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 5
JP Landscaping is on a distinguished road
Default interesting

Here's something to think about. Take out the purchase costs of your equipment and trucks (but leave the maintenance and operating costs of operating them)from your overhead costs and see how much you would be able to charge and still make the same amount of money.

In other words, if those trucks and equipment were given to you for free. Example: you get a government grant and use that to buy your equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-20-2010, 11:41 AM
SuperiorPower
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Some figures to think about: Say you charge $10 per yard x 50 yards x say 40 cuts per yard per year (i know, it depends on your location), you gross $20,000. Then subtract gas, maintenance, etc, you will not be making much money. If you charge $20 per yard I am guessing you could still have most of those yards and thus make about twice as much money.

It matters not that he doesn't have to pay for the equipment the first time. He still needs to look at their "selling price" as expense. Then he can add this much value to his gross profit. Eventually he will have to replace this equipment. For that reason he needs to be charging enough so that he can place their replacement funds aside to be ready to purchase the equipment at that time.

There are several recent threads about overhead expenses to look up. All of these threads have in depth conversation about overhead, how to figure it, etc. I have posted at least 2 different overhead calculators to help with overhead expense calculation. I will attach the most recent one again.

Hope this helps,
Eli
Attached Files
File Type: xls Simple LCO Overhead estimator.xls (37.0 KB, 45 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-20-2010, 01:34 PM
picframer's Avatar
picframer picframer is offline
Andy
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,885
Rep Power: 9
picframer will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorPower View Post
It matters not that he doesn't have to pay for the equipment the first time. He still needs to look at their "selling price" as expense. Then he can add this much value to his gross profit. Eventually he will have to replace this equipment. For that reason he needs to be charging enough so that he can place their replacement funds aside to be ready to purchase the equipment at that time.

There are several recent threads about overhead expenses to look up. All of these threads have in depth conversation about overhead, how to figure it, etc. I have posted at least 2 different overhead calculators to help with overhead expense calculation. I will attach the most recent one again.

Hope this helps,
Eli
There is no way on earth one can cut lawns for ten bucks and make a profit even if you walked to the customers site, calculate depreciation into this i.e. replacement costs of the mower, trimmer and blower, I amportize everything for mowing except the tractors over two years, I have 169 clients and there is no way on earth I could do any of them for ten bucks, I woun't even attend a lawn that is under $25.00.
__________________
Andy
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-21-2010, 12:48 AM
JP Landscaping JP Landscaping is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 5
JP Landscaping is on a distinguished road
Default check this one

very good points... but I think you can make a profit in the right situation..you just won't make a as much profit as you should be making. Well at least until you have to replace the equipment you got for free. but like I read before, if you maintain your equipment right, it lasts.

take this...the employee earns $10/hr. If it takes 30 min per lawn for a $30 lawn, then he gets paid $5 per lawn.

At this rate he can mow 16 lawns in a day or 80 possible lawns mowed in 40 hours or 1 week. if you consider 35 mowing weeks in the season, that makes 2800 mows for the season.

if he charges $15 per lawn (half of his boss) he will gross $42000 for the season.

as an employee at $10/hr ($5/mow avg), he will gross only $14000.

True. out of those 42000 he has to take out OPERATING expenses (to keep it simple)

Gas ($4/lawn) 11200, truck insurance 300, biz cards he printed out 50, maintenace 1000, Liab insurance 800, business registration 100,printing paper and ink 80,
- total = 13530 lets round it to $14000 in case we forgot something

- So 42000 - 14000 = $28000 gross
- That's twice as much as he made working for his boss!

as far as saving for equipment, You wouldn't expect to replace your equipment the first year, and if you do, then you can send it to warranty.

Now we're saying this is a one man operation, Two mowers (a good one and a back up one), two trimmers and a blower. How much can all this equipment cost to replace? not 14000 a year.

lets say you spend 5 grand on this equipment and you expect it to last you 5 years. then you can set aside 1000 each year (depreciation) for when you have to replace it...that still leaves him $27,000.

Now is he making a profit? If his opportunity cost for the time spent working for his boss is $14000 gross, I think he is making profit.

What do you guys think?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:53 AM
jasonw's Avatar
jasonw jasonw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,008
Rep Power: 7
jasonw is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Landscaping View Post
Take this scenerio for instance:

Lets say you pay your employees $10 and hour and in 1 hour your employee can mow 2 lawns on average. You are paying them $5 per lawn gross pay.
If they work 8 hours a day. you pay them $80 gross.

If I was that employee, and not thinking too deeply, I would figure I can charge $10-$15 per lawn and make 2-3 times as much money as I was making and still be charging 1/2 to 1/3 of the competition.

i know you may be thinking, "he's gonna be broke in no time!"

But consider this, I had a friend who's uncle gave him a brand new riding mower with a ton of attachements (including snow blower), trimmer, blower, etc. because his uncle owned an equipment store. uncle wanted to claim a loss somehow.

Well this friend already owned a pick up and small trailer, big enough to put the mower in.

This is almost the perfect scenerio for him to be able to start his lawncare business charging $15 per lawn. (He was only making $8.50/hr at his factory job)

I mean, this is probably why there are many new competitors trying to charge so low...they figure, i already have equipment to use, my overhead is low since I'm not gonna pay insurance or register...or even if they did, it doesn't cost much to at least register.

Get this... so lets say a LCO pays 65% overhead, 20% company profit, and 15% owner profit. out of a $30 lawn that's $19.50 for company costs.
the company and owner combined are only making $10.50 on the lawn.

I think it's possible for someone in this situation to charge $15 for the same lawn that a larger LCO would charge $30 for and still make about the same amount of profit. That's about $30 per hour if he does 2 lawns per hour. I know of landscapers who charge $30 per labor hour and that includes their overhead.

What do you guys think??

Lets analyze this: what would be his costs?
- basically his operating costs (variable)
gas, maintanence, administration, ??
- his fixed costs would be pretty low
: registration, insurance, adv, what else??
This was probably already covered but I didn't read all the reply's. At %50 or your revenue going to expenses I think they will be out of business in no time. At the same time someones uncle who gives away equipment to claim a loss is both a crook and not a good businessman so chances are he is out of business or shut down anyway. A minimum I like to shoot for is no more than %15 expenses. So far I am able to beat that target. Hopefully it stays that way.
__________________
White Company
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-06-2010, 11:07 PM
The Cleaning Doctor's Avatar
The Cleaning Doctor The Cleaning Doctor is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 927
Rep Power: 5
The Cleaning Doctor is on a distinguished road
Default

Not to mention that as a self employed person you also have both sides of the income tax and SS and FICA to pay.

Not taken into account is invoices, rain delays, non payers etc.
__________________
Pat
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-06-2010, 11:22 PM
JP Landscaping JP Landscaping is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 5
JP Landscaping is on a distinguished road
Default

ok but self employment is 7.65% additionally to the 7.65% that would be deducted from your pay if you were an employee anyway. So 1 yard out of the day's bunch would pay for that.

I still think in the right situation you can make a profit charging $15 per lawn that would take you about 30 minutes to complete. I know landscapers who charge $30 an hour and they have more overhead than would be needed.

lets say you buy a used self porpelled mower in good condition for $300. A trimmer and a blower for an additional 300. if you already have a truck, then you are set for business.

What would be your overhead?

You are already paying insurance for the truck so you don't need it.
you would have gas, maintenance (wouldn't be much for a 21'' mower, etc), advertising, and depreciation of equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-07-2010, 01:41 AM
jasonw's Avatar
jasonw jasonw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,008
Rep Power: 7
jasonw is on a distinguished road
Default

7.65% are you kidding me? where are the taxes that low? I am taxed about 22.5%.
__________________
White Company
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full time job to full time lawn care. Making the jump. Steve General Business Discussions 6 01-18-2012 09:11 AM
Making the most of lawn care business upsells? GopherHaul Lawn Care Business Marketin Steve GopherHaul Lawn Care Business Show, Video, Book & Podcast Discussions. 0 08-12-2009 10:04 PM
Making the most of lawn care business upsells? GopherHaul Lawn Care Business Marketin Steve Lawn Care Business Marketing - GopherHaul Forum News 0 08-12-2009 10:02 PM
Making money with lawn signs? Steve General Business Discussions 8 11-08-2007 12:02 PM
Lawn Care Marketing - More Profit Stimulating Idea Steve Lawn Care Marketing & Post your marketing material for review! 3 11-24-2006 08:35 AM

» Recent Threads
  RatingTitle, Username, & Date Last Post Replies Views
What Fertilizer to Use?
acrajchel
04-07-2014 01:56 PM
Today 12:40 AM
by ExtremeLawncareServices
14 377
danny 2
danny2
Yesterday 10:19 PM
Yesterday 10:41 PM
by danny2
1 23
I Got Taken...,
Dan Tanner
Yesterday 06:26 AM
Yesterday 08:15 PM
by Dan Tanner
3 104
new to this forum!
mower13126
04-18-2014 07:37 PM
Yesterday 05:34 PM
by Sprinkler Buddy
3 88
Lawn Renovation
stevef1201
04-11-2014 12:00 PM
Yesterday 03:15 PM
by stevef1201
9 248
employee pay
4 seasons maintenance
04-10-2011 09:34 PM
Yesterday 12:19 PM
by kslawn
19 6,766
REO calling
Dan Tanner
04-16-2014 05:03 PM
Yesterday 11:17 AM
by kslawn
11 256
this mower is driving me...
boog
04-17-2014 12:07 PM
Yesterday 10:59 AM
by kslawn
4 132
Customers droping like...
goodtimez
04-18-2014 09:53 AM
Yesterday 08:09 AM
by CDLAWNCARE
7 156
Back for this year
xandrew245x
02-21-2014 04:30 PM
Yesterday 07:59 AM
by xandrew245x
14 863
Any greenhouse operators...
GoGreenerKS
04-15-2014 11:21 AM
Yesterday 07:49 AM
by CDLAWNCARE
4 137
Looking for advice on a...
Tekeda1
04-13-2014 09:53 AM
Yesterday 04:22 AM
by Tekeda1
17 377
2.5 acre mowing
xandrew245x
04-18-2014 06:55 AM
04-18-2014 08:57 PM
by xandrew245x
6 118
Best Bulk Mulch delivery...
Steven Virgadamo
04-18-2014 09:52 AM
04-18-2014 05:34 PM
by Steve
2 66
Steve Virgadamo,...
Steven Virgadamo
04-18-2014 09:49 AM
04-18-2014 05:08 PM
by Steve
2 58
Instagram
Gerardo_Landscape
04-16-2014 11:28 AM
04-18-2014 04:51 PM
by Steve
3 98
Help with weed liability!
Prolawnofchatt
04-15-2014 09:10 AM
04-18-2014 04:47 PM
by Steve
5 191
These are the days on...
ExtremeLawncareServices
03-22-2014 09:12 AM
04-18-2014 04:41 PM
by Steve
31 1,065
Nationwide lawn care...
Billy Goat
04-15-2014 05:21 PM
04-18-2014 04:39 PM
by Steve
9 214
Truck Signage
Dan Tanner
04-16-2014 11:00 PM
04-18-2014 04:04 PM
by stevef1201
10 204
leaf removal
tlf59263
04-15-2014 10:00 PM
04-18-2014 03:59 PM
by stevef1201
6 177
Pay per click advertising
roostertail
02-12-2014 07:26 PM
04-17-2014 07:11 PM
by yardrate
10 609
Accepting credit cards,...
Darksteel
03-17-2014 08:01 PM
04-16-2014 01:02 PM
by jymie
15 727
Trimec
acrajchel
04-15-2014 08:24 PM
04-16-2014 11:10 AM
by Steve
3 104
Gopher Forum Discount!
BlackRain75
04-12-2014 10:44 PM
04-16-2014 10:50 AM
by Steve
9 276
hello
NFrailey
04-15-2014 01:39 PM
04-16-2014 10:48 AM
by Steve
1 96
Pricing a Mulch Job
dmcalpi
04-07-2014 02:16 PM
04-16-2014 09:40 AM
by jymie
21 619
google earth
CDLAWNCARE
04-12-2014 03:24 PM
04-16-2014 09:36 AM
by jymie
8 234
There has to be an...
CDLAWNCARE
04-14-2014 12:59 PM
04-15-2014 04:06 PM
by Dan Tanner
6 174
First Day Back!
BelleCityLawn1
04-09-2014 09:13 PM
04-15-2014 11:16 AM
by Steve
11 306
Mow America
stevegredler
04-13-2014 01:02 PM
04-14-2014 09:53 PM
by kslawn
5 210
Power Broom
acrajchel
04-14-2014 07:46 AM
04-14-2014 12:47 PM
by CDLAWNCARE
2 105
Say Hello !!!
Steve
03-19-2007 11:18 AM
04-14-2014 11:34 AM
by Steve
1,176 285,614
Equipment reviews
Greg'slawnandlandscape
04-09-2014 07:17 AM
04-14-2014 11:27 AM
by Greg'slawnandlandscape
13 446
Sulky and Turf Tracer
acrajchel
04-07-2014 01:44 PM
04-14-2014 10:51 AM
by Steve
8 360
Aerating Prices?
Dan Tanner
04-08-2014 03:16 PM
04-14-2014 10:31 AM
by Steve
13 443
Estimating help
acrajchel
04-11-2014 06:06 PM
04-14-2014 10:20 AM
by Steve
3 175
Need help bidding church...
GreenRidge Lawn&Landscape
04-07-2014 08:01 PM
04-14-2014 09:49 AM
by Steve
12 423
Hello all
Griff20114
04-12-2014 05:08 PM
04-14-2014 09:46 AM
by Steve
1 119
Step by Step Spring Lawn...
WarriorLawnscaping
04-10-2014 07:01 AM
04-14-2014 09:43 AM
by Steve
5 252
Jeff Cowden
jcowden
04-11-2014 07:27 PM
04-14-2014 09:39 AM
by Steve
1 112
Exmark Commercial 30...
Dan Tanner
04-11-2014 05:35 AM
04-14-2014 09:37 AM
by Steve
4 200
What Was Your Setup When...
superrman77
02-11-2014 10:53 AM
04-14-2014 08:04 AM
by acrajchel
21 1,601
Small guy time to get a...
googus
04-08-2014 08:16 AM
04-13-2014 07:18 PM
by A. Kulak Landscaping
9 330
Weekly vs. Bi-weekly
CDLAWNCARE
04-12-2014 01:48 PM
04-13-2014 06:03 PM
by kslawn
9 334
Weed ID help
TwinBrosLC
04-12-2014 10:39 AM
04-13-2014 07:40 AM
by stevef1201
4 170
Lexington, KY
acrajchel
04-07-2014 01:06 PM
04-11-2014 09:49 PM
by acrajchel
1 139
Food Plot Management
BlackRain75
04-11-2014 10:20 AM
04-11-2014 03:51 PM
by Steve
4 141
Estimating a job
acrajchel
04-08-2014 11:07 AM
04-11-2014 03:32 PM
by Steve
6 310
New Boomless Sprayer!
BlackRain75
01-03-2014 01:01 PM
04-11-2014 03:25 PM
by Steve
11 1,017
» Popular Tags
4wd ads aerator bid butterfly gardens buy charge christmas christmas light hanging christmas lighting client color jet courtesy call craigslist credit card customers echo escrow exmark ferris first truck florida flower bed cultivation price fundraiser georgia gopherhaul grass grass clarksville gravely holiday holiday lighting how much to charge how to bid kansas city kawasaki lawn care lawn care business book lawn care business podcast lawn care business show leaf lighting brass outdoor lights llp marketing mow mowing mowing clarksville mulch mulch estimate new buisness new business new start outdoor environments payment podcast property management company riding mower savannah scag schedule selling seo sprayer starting a business start up lawn care business stihl trailer unreasonable upsell walker winter money making ideas
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.1.0

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 AM.


(C) 2011 Riggs Publications - Terms of use & Privacy Policy

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:44 AM.

(C) 2011 Riggs Publications - Terms of use & Privacy Policy