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  #11  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:35 PM
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It amazes me how you can sign up with an insurance company to get insurance and then they can put in all this extract crap to be able to alter the way you do business.

Why not if you were to build a deck, simply have a contract with the customer that says 'I am not insured to construct this. You agree not to hold me liable for any damages.'

Insurance company contracts can hold you to whatever they want, but why do I get the feeling that if a lawn care business owner tried this. The first thing that would happen would be that they got sued.
I would have to ask my lawyer and make sure he had the wording.

The house I am in I built in 1987. Three or four years ago the insurance company tells me they are coming for a visit, they made a list of things I had to change, this is how stupid things are, my oil barrel was in mint condition but because it was over 15 years old I had to have it replace, even the company that did it said it was still mint, I had to put dead bolts on every door yet I have probably the best security system money can buy complete with motion activated cameras, I have GPS on every piece of machinery I own yet I don;t get a brake and it's all motion activated and cell and monitored by another company I own part of, they had a list of stupid things I had to do but I swear they all sleep together because it's the same no matter where you go.

I doubt that in the court of law a release from the homeowner would stand up in court, they could say well I didn't really understand or whatever I just know it's a road I don't want to go down and at least here we are all in the same boat.

I pay Unemployment Insurance yet I am not allowed to ever collect, my employees are all University students save two, they pay Unemployment Insurance and I have to match it by 2.2 yet they can not collect because they are students, I could really get into a rant on this crap, the one that really gets me is Workers Comp that I have to pay as an employer, I know from direct word of mouth, even if your employer is paying, god help you when you file a claim to get money, I guess it takes forever.

Things in many areas on both sides of the border being Canada and the USA are just not geared to support small business, it's why we see so many trunk slammers doing work for cash, honestly I don't know how on earth a lawn care only company could make a go of it if they did everything by the book, excavation, spraying, chipping saved my company, I would not be here today had I not switched the company direction in late April and I was lucky that I had the cash to do it or I would be off doing something else.

It's these other services in my case that makes the money.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:07 PM
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Things in many areas on both sides of the border being Canada and the USA are just not geared to support small business, it's why we see so many trunk slammers doing work for cash, honestly I don't know how on earth a lawn care only company could make a go of it if they did everything by the book
I am with you on this. What it does is create an underground economy.

I can remember in college, in a business class, we had a local business owner who was a guest speaker and he told us of all the problems with running a small business. He discussed these same issues.

Because he manufactured a product, he had to pay the insurance company per piece he manufactured. And because of this, he said in order to stay competitive, he kept two books. One for him to see how many products he had made and another for his insurance company so they wouldn't charge him as much.

When a system is created where the only way to stay competitive, is to cheat the system, the system has failed.

The system the government should set up is one to create a level playing ground for all to participate in.

When a person is broke or simply doesn't have any assets, they couldn't give two s**ts about insurance or taxes for that matter. They are trying to survive.

Lawsuits mean nothing to them because they have nothing to lose.

ok I will shut up about this for the moment.

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Blogs generate traffic and I have the traffic without them and we are so busy and stressed from April to November it's next to impossible to keep it up, I along with some employees work 7 days a week, I rotate to avoid overtime, some days it's nothing for me to get home at 11 at night because I had to move gear to a site where we start at 7 in the morning which means I am up at 5:30, walk the dog, answer emails, get the staff work orders out, make a list of who I have to call, stuff needs to stay serviced to maintain warranty and the list is endless.
This kinda nails a point that I often think about. When you are dealing with this industry. Lawn care, landscaping, property maintenance.

As a small business owner, where is it better for one to spend their time. Focusing on internet marketing or going out into your local community and becoming a goodwill ambassador for your business?

Ultimately, you're not trying to sell your services to anyone further than a small geographic area. The internet is a global marketing tool.

Keeping this in mind, I would figure at first it would be better off to spend your marketing time within your local community. As you get bigger, you will want to expand your image and all this web stuff becomes important. But early on, I think it's not the optimal path to take.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:57 PM
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Because he manufactured a product, he had to pay the insurance company per piece he manufactured. And because of this, he said in order to stay competitive, he kept two books. One for him to see how many products he had made and another for his insurance company so they wouldn't charge him as much.

Keeping this in mind, I would figure at first it would be better off to spend your marketing time within your local community. As you get bigger, you will want to expand your image and all this web stuff becomes important. But early on, I think it's not the optimal path to take.
Many companies keep two or three sets of books, I would probably save thousands doing it but in my own case I have to much to loose so I do everything by the book.

On the second point you are correct however you have to have a website of some sort, it isn't that hard to put something together but people do care.

Your focus should be your community and your network, this is our down time so who is it you know that you should go have a coffee with and tell them what you are doing and ask them if they know of anyone needing this service, tell them you are looking at other services but what services do you think people might want. Then when you get the referral, say John though you might be interested in a service we offer which is xxxxxx, would you be interested, if they say yes, that is great but take it another step, tell them you really look forward to working with them and then ask, would you know of anyone who might also be interested. Corney??? Maybe...does it work, you bet your boots it does and it's what I am doing now for another company I am starting that has nothing to do with this one.

The other thing and I don't want to sound like a preacher as I am not is these friggin post cards I use, the results are amazing and I know why. You saw a need, you can help with that need, it's a personal direct touch, that is why is is so effective. The prospect thinks gosh, that guy or gal noticed that I could use or whatever and they took the time to stop and the card should be specific to a service, start with two or three different cards one for lawn mowing and maybe one for Organic spraying or whatever floats your boat, then take a drive around or even before you get the cards, drive around and pay attention, what do you see at various homes that is a similar service need? When you see it and trust me you will, you just found your next service, now print the cards and go back to these places, I think you will be shocked at the results.
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:13 PM
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Your focus should be your community and your network, this is our down time so who is it you know that you should go have a coffee with and tell them what you are doing and ask them if they know of anyone needing this service, tell them you are looking at other services but what services do you think people might want.
Andy,

Do you feel most people hate marketing? Why so?

What you wrote seems very straight forwards and simple, but why is it seem this just rarely ever happens?
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  #15  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:17 AM
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Andy,

Do you feel most people hate marketing? Why so?

What you wrote seems very straight forwards and simple, but why is it seem this just rarely ever happens?
If you mean sales the answer is yes, most avoid because they are afraid of rejections, blow a no off, laugh it off, hold your head high and smile at the next prospect, go in with the attitude you will get the job, people read body language well, be careful, don't look and speak to the ground, look them in the eye, give a firm hand shake, know your stuff and act but no over act, like you already won the job.

Some are simply just no good at it, for goodness sake if this is the case hire someone that is and pay them based on what they bring in and hire someone you would want to do business with.

People are not afraid to market, look at the posts here of dozens printing thousands of flyers to send out, that is not sales, it's easy, you can hide behind the door with flyers and wait for the phone to ring, it probably won't and you will probably starve, you need to get in the face of the prospect to get them.
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:37 AM
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Andy,

Do you feel most people hate marketing? Why so?

What you wrote seems very straight forwards and simple, but why is it seem this just rarely ever happens?
I have to leave for a meeting the off to work to start a demolition job I won the other night anyhow

I don't want to come off to a reader as a know it all, obnoxious or rude as I am the opposite, but at the same time people who know me personally will tell you I call a spade a spade and lay it on the table.

If I am not good at something, accept it and get someone that is, it doesn't mean that you are not excellent at something else. There may be folks here that are the best there is at clean up jobs or maybe designing shrubs or making gardens, but terrible at sales, folks that is life. There are few in this world that are great at everything, the guys that won and are winning have a team below them to fill the gaps of what they are not good at, I could list many multi million dollar companies that accepted this, put the people in place and look at them now....Bill Gates comes to mind and is an excellent example, he is an amazing guy but DOS and Windows were designed by others, he simply was the Captain of the ship and made damn sure he had the right people in the right positions, Donald Trump is another example.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2010, 12:04 PM
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People are not afraid to market, look at the posts here of dozens printing thousands of flyers to send out, that is not sales, it's easy, you can hide behind the door with flyers and wait for the phone to ring, it probably won't and you will probably starve, you need to get in the face of the prospect to get them.
Do you think many small business owners confuse marketing with sales? As you pointed out, it seems many people are afraid of sales because they are afraid of rejection. With marketing, there isn't the fear of direct face to face rejection.

How should a lawn care business owner use marketing and sales to find success and how shouldn't they?
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:54 PM
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Do you think many small business owners confuse marketing with sales? As you pointed out, it seems many people are afraid of sales because they are afraid of rejection. With marketing, there isn't the fear of direct face to face rejection.

How should a lawn care business owner use marketing and sales to find success and how shouldn't they?
Marketing and Sales are totally separate but like a good marriage they need to work together to build a strong and long lasting relationship.

Well to me it's simple, if I make 50 sales calls and come home with less than 50% of the business, in my previous jobs I would give the sales person another chance but if it happened twice, then they are not a sales person and would be moved to another division or let go. Does that sound harsh, perhaps but if one employee can close say 60% of the sames, then I expect all sales people to close at least 40%.

If you are a business owner and making call after call and not getting the business, accept that maybe it's not the offering it could be me or you so hire someone that can close the deals and maybe focus your time on marketing or managing the workers or doing the work, it's nothing to be ashamed of, it takes a certain kind of person to be a top sales producer.

I can close 90%+ of the calls we receive (or I should say I did last year as I keep stats on everything) but that is not what I would ever expect of a sales person.

Let me give you an example, in July we hired a fellow and he was let go by a supervisor as he couldn't seem to follow instructions that well, his mom calls me and it turns out he has ADD, I hired him back to work directly with me, a challenge, OMG you bet at first then I noticed something, he was starting to repeat my sales lines to clients and clients seemed to love him, so one day I said to myself what the heck, we were doing leaf collection on a street where dozens of homes needed our services, I let him loose to go door to door while I and another staff member were doing the work, OMG he closed almost 20 deals in one day and most were over quoted, a couple were under, in the end we made a pile of cash as we didn't have to move the truck and trailer for two days. So now he is in charge of sales, I give him a vehicle and he is on his own and paid commission rather than salary at his request and he made a lot of money last fall for the leaf collection crews.

I can hardly wait to see what he does this year, the only thing he is not allowed to quote is excavation, I do all of those quotes as I want to see what we are getting into and it takes years of experience to quote these jobs properly.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:12 PM
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Well to me it's simple, if I make 50 sales calls and come home with less than 50% of the business, in my previous jobs I would give the sales person another chance but if it happened twice, then they are not a sales person and would be moved to another division or let go. Does that sound harsh, perhaps but if one employee can close say 60% of the sames, then I expect all sales people to close at least 40%.
I am guessing you mean pre-qualified callers? Meaning these are people that called you looking for service? Or do you mean cold calling area residents and you are looking to sell them a service?

Quote:
now he is in charge of sales, I give him a vehicle and he is on his own and paid commission rather than salary at his request and he made a lot of money last fall for the leaf collection crews.
When looking for a sales person, do you think the average lawn care business owner should promote from within or should they get someone from the outside to do this job?

I would think it might be difficult to not only train someone how to sell but also how to bid jobs.
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2010, 08:54 PM
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I am guessing you mean pre-qualified callers? Meaning these are people that called you looking for service? Or do you mean cold calling area residents and you are looking to sell them a service?



When looking for a sales person, do you think the average lawn care business owner should promote from within or should they get someone from the outside to do this job?

I would think it might be difficult to not only train someone how to sell but also how to bid jobs.
Yes, people who called wanting something done.

I think we should first try to do it ourselves but if we are treading water we need to look at what the issue may be. If you have someone on staff that can sell, let them loose and go do something else, I have staff that can run certain gear better than I can, does that bother me??? Not at all more power to them, glad to have them on board and I won't go near their machine.

Some people have a natural sales ability, others try to learn how to sell, find someone with a natural sales ability as for pricing, that is super simple to learn, teach them the box they must work in and when they make mistakes let them know how it should have been done.

In my case it's super simple, measure the property and my laptop will tell you exactly how much every service we offer for lawn care will cost.

Clean up's, straight by the hour and I know the customer will ask how many hours, come up with a line, generally speaking this would take us about 3 hours so the cost will be $150.00 or whatever, however we will stop at three hours.

They are going to make some mistakes, gosh we all do, what is important is that we learn from them.

The way I have worked this commission, it's tied to profit on the job, so if my sales guy bids $45.00 to mow a lawn and it ends up costing us $40.00 and lets just say I agreed to pay 30% of profits then he just made $1.50 per mow, he will learn real fast.....or at least I would hope so.

In my case the sales guy's focus is tree cutting and chipping, it's by the hour no exceptions, his job is to simply find clients needing it, next is mowing and that one is simple as I have a digital talk roller thing that gives you the square feet in seconds, I paid quite a bit for it but it's great, spraying and this will be interesting I told him to sell the entire package for the first spray and then certain sprays monthly, told him what to look for etc. Pressure washing is by the square foot so that one is easy also, excavation is me only. Driveway grading is by the hour, tilling by the square foot, post holes by the hole, mulching by the square foot, we tend to stay clear of weeding jobs, I am not a plant expert and some of our clients have some pretty extensive flower gardens so I sub that to a lady I know that is an expert and does it for a living.....I think that is about everything we do.

Forgot to add, if it's a major job, like some of these private gated communities we picked up late in the season, we will do these together.

Most of the readers here are straight lawn care so it should be super simple, tell your sales guy min of $xx.xx per lawn for mowing however it is $xx.xx per square foot, in my case if he really screwed up a quote, I would go talk to the customer and take it from there, I am sure there are going to be a few head shaking times ahead but I am willing to go down that road and see what happens.
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