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  #11  
Old 01-12-2012, 07:07 PM
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Chris,cthis is perfect timing. I just went to an estimating seminar yesterday and I will discuss that in a minute.
Years ago I had 9 full time employees and a thriving business I built from the ground up. During my second year I took on a partner and hired some of his friends, one of which ran my maint crew whom I gave a company truck and gas card. About half way through that year I started seeing charges on my gas card from other neighboring states. I confronted him and he said I didn't know that I couldn't use it for road trips. Road trips to other states with my truck? Are you fu@$ing kidding me? A week later after firing him I did the mowing route and had neighbors asking me why I wasn't cutting their lawn today. These were people he was mowing on the side. Nice!!! Since then I scaled way back to myself and however many people I can fit into my truck with me. The estimating seminar I went to yesterday helped me confirm that my 25% profit margin I made last year is where I need to be. I am on every job, and some weeks working 7 days. My customers love seeing me and knowing I take personal intrest in their property. I have been doing this since I was 14 yrs old. That's 34 years. Yes I am 48 and love this business! I start laborers at $ 11-12 per hour based on experience. Hope this helps.
Jim


it is funny reading your post and as i do i see myself. i am 45 years old and have been doing it for as it seems forever.
i had guys going all over the place and thought i had good guys in place to count on getting stuff done and not having to be watched like infants.

it was good for a while but eventually given the chance coupled with other crappy workers they can get tainted and start off on the path of screwing you blind.

now i do all commercial properties and i just have what i would call a super crew with 7 guys including myself and we all go around together with the two service vehicles and all the fixings.
this way i am on the job and being that the jobs are big we bang them out faster and move on to the next.
i work right along with them and if i got some office work to do i can take a hour and sit in the truck and do what i got to do.
one of the things i like in this day and age is the ease of a mobile office, i have everything i need and with my android phone setup i can do everything paperless as well as send it right to the office into the mother ship.

i rarely have to deal with much during the day and when i do it usually is a few quick calls and back to work.
when i changed direction a few years back my goal was to make as much money as possible with the fewest customers which is why i do commercial.
i only got to deal with 10 bills for 10 clients in 10 different locations its like my hermain cain 10-10-10- plan (not really). i must say they are 10 large properties so its not easy by any stretch but all i have to focus on each year is keep those 10 clients happy as a clam and always keep the feelers out for next year on other accounts in case you get low balled and lose one. but being i deal with management co's they take care of most of that for me so i never really have to deal with customers and phone calls too much.

when i used to be all residental i had 120 accounts and OMG the crap on a daily basis i had to deal with from people who thought because they paid me a couple hundred bucks each month that i was responsible for all the wrong in the world.
the phone calls and constant clammer from these people and the billing was horrible and some paid right away and some took weeks and you always kept number totals like what i made this month and how much of what i actually made that i have in hand amount and the what is still owed to me in the past due amount.

its hard and it took a long time but at this point in the game i can not be bothered sucking up to someone for a couple hundred bucks a month and deal with their stories and complaints.
for the rare occassion i have to meet with a client that pays me 9 G wizzes each month over a issue or concern i find it no problem having to grease his carrot.

as they say money talks.
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2012, 03:37 PM
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it was good for a while but eventually given the chance coupled with other crappy workers they can get tainted and start off on the path of screwing you blind.
What kind of issues did you see that others should look out for when they turn their employees loose?
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2012, 09:48 AM
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Steve, to answer your questions. If I ever wanted to grow, which I do NOT.
I would do strict background checks including credit and drug testing with a zero tolerance.
Next a thorough employee manual including the ability to fire someone even if they looked at me the wrong way.
Lastly I would find out just how I would be able to legally discriminate against having to hire someone I did not think would be a good fit. Honestly I hate visible tattoos, and piercings of any kind on guys. Why would you put those hideous black fender washers in your ears? Or take the chance of chipping a tooth with a tongue piercing?
We work with great clients, some older and some younger and non of them have any of these things.
I would store fuel at my location or do all of the fueling myself. I have had gas stolen in the past.
Let's see what else, no more company trucks to take home. No lending of tools.
Like I said it is hard to say what I would do if I grew because I refuse.
Jim
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  #14  
Old 01-14-2012, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
What kind of issues did you see that others should look out for when they turn their employees loose?
things are a little different now because of the changes i made by having all my workers with me during the day instead of being divided up so that helps a lot.

but i found that when i had two brothers working for me it was a little difficult at times.
the younger brother was the actual landscaper and had a good deal of experience and he got his older bro a job and some of the problems i had was the younger brother had a problem telling his older brother what to do and when to do it.
i had times when i would insruct them where i wanted them to start the day and end up, basicly a planned route so i could know where they were as well as the route was set up like a big loop with no back tracking to save time as well as mileage on the truck.
well, the older brother would to some degree bully his younger brother with the family senority and decide, " lets go this way so i can stop and get lunch " and completely screw up the route and make tracking them down difficult.

i find it is very important for your employee's to get along and have a good relationship but at the same time too much of a good thing can be a problem.

there are so many things that can be a problem as well as every situation is different so it is hard to rattle off a list of things to look out for because i have seen brothers work well together so the two clowns that worked for me do not represent all related employees.

i had one dude that worked for me as a foreman and for the first 3 weeks he did well and after that his days slowly got longer and longer with the same route.
it was late spring so the grass was still growing fast and it also coincided with a fert app from a few weeks prior so with the bagging it took longer which was expected and believable.

but then we got into july and some home owners ( when i still serviced home owners ) were asking to take a week off because the grass slowed down and this dude was still coming in with a hr extra each day and that is when the BS started to flow.
his excuses where, the mower was giving me trouble and the truck was running funny and the string trimmer died and i fixed it.
it got to the point that every day it was something.
keep in mind that i was sending this dude out in a brand new set up it was like three months old when he started.
the truck, trailer, two riders, one walk behind, 3 trimmers and 2 back packs and everything else was brand new.
at first i gave it the benefit of the doubt because i have bought new things in the past that gave me trouble but every dam thing in the set up was brand new and according to him it was giving him trouble.

i knew he was playing games and before i jumped to conclusions i had my trucks set up with the gps tracking and none of them knew about it.

well, as it turns out they were going to his house everyday for lunch 3 towns away from the closest job and once a week he was actually cutting his lawn while he was there.
he also had a little side gig with about ten lawns that he was mixing in with my route.

but in the end i had him and 2 laborers stiffing me out of 2 hrs a day X 3 guys X 5 days a week plus fuel for the cuts on the side and the out of the way driving plus they were sand bagging my jobs to get them done quicker to have more time for themselves and the side work.

i kept a log of all the addresses he was servicing with the dates and times as well as extended lunch breaks at his house and with the gps i could also tally the mileage.
i decided that tomorrow which was friday i would let them finish the route for the week as well as it was pay day and at the end of the day i would send them packing and then give myself the weekend to forget about it and get back to the grind on monday.

what was even more bizzar and coincidental was i saw a new stop on his route, a place he never went to before and he was there a while so i was really curious as to what they were doing and i got in the truck and zipped over to where they were and he actually had the balls to unhook my trailer and leave it at one of my customers houses and take the dump truck and go get mulch and do a mulch job.

i was like, that's it. i pulled into the driveway and got out of the truck and calmly walked up and said, make sure you hurry and get this finished and go back and get my trailer where you left it and make sure everything, i mean everything is done before you come back, and don't come back if it is not done.
and then i left.

come 5:00 they came back all quiet and with those long azzed sorry faces and being that i pay every two weeks and it was friday i told them i would give them their checks and that i would file charges against them for stealing my equipment and truck. the one guy said, your gonna do that for doing a mulch job on the side? then i slapped the log of everywhere they been the last 6 weeks on the desk and said, and for this too.

you want to talk about seeing 3 guys turn white as a ghost in 2.5 seconds. they were floored.
so i totaled up what they made with my stuff over the six weeks period includeing the mulch job and deducted the hours i would have paid them and they still owed me more money then they each had coming from their 2 week paychecks .

so i said, you forefit your 2 weeks paycheck right here and now and walk away with no job and no money and i won't call the cops on each of your azzes or you can take your checks now and still have no job and we can settle the rest in the peoples court.

they chose to cut their losses and run but it is amazeing how you can have 2 guys work for you for a season and they were fine and good and then i add one bad apple and he corrupted them and in the end cost them all their jobs.

my only advice would be don't think it can not happen to you and never say never.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2012, 01:48 PM
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That is an amazing story and it gives a great heads up of things you gotta watch out for.

Quote:
when i used to be all residental i had 120 accounts and OMG the crap on a daily basis i had to deal with from people who thought because they paid me a couple hundred bucks each month that i was responsible for all the wrong in the world.
This is another great point you made that I think effects A LOT of newer lawn care business owners. So often we hear stories on here of lawn care business owners banging their heads against the wall because thy have such a difficult time dealing with their customer base. Maybe instead of dealing with a group of problem customers, they should consider going the route you took.

Ultimately would you say it's up to the business owner to find the type of client base that will work best for them?
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:22 PM
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I have an idea.

You could pay one employee a set amount. He will be responsible for hiring/managing his own assistant, along with refueling, etc. If he plans on working alone, fine, as long as the work gets done.

If he comes to you saying he used up all the money you had given him, fire him if his excuse doesn't amuse you.

Sure he could use up all the money on a shopping spree, but then you take his arse to court. A good contract between this employee should keep you safe.

What do you think?
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Old 01-17-2012, 03:57 PM
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I am leaning more towards keeping things as structured as possible.

When you can create policies and structure that works for you and your business, you minimize the element of having an employee who has their own view on how your business should run, based on their lack of experience in the field.

I think it is better when you know what you want and how to get those results and you have policies to repeat those results every single day.
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  #18  
Old 01-17-2012, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That is an amazing story and it gives a great heads up of things you gotta watch out for.



This is another great point you made that I think effects A LOT of newer lawn care business owners. So often we hear stories on here of lawn care business owners banging their heads against the wall because thy have such a difficult time dealing with their customer base. Maybe instead of dealing with a group of problem customers, they should consider going the route you took.

Ultimately would you say it's up to the business owner to find the type of client base that will work best for them?
without a doubt it is up to the business owner but at the same time every situation is different.

guys starting out have to lean towards taking everything that comes their way to get ahead so for them the process takes more time and effort and leaves them little room for picking and choosing.

working residential lawns is perfectly fine and you can build a very lucrative business doing just that, i did for 16 years before i made the switch.
it all depends on what direction the particular business owner wants to take and if you are starting out there really is only one route unless your flush with cash and that is residential.

i made the switch because i leveled out and i could not make no more unless i wanted to send out additional crews because my time was allready maxed out with the customers i had.
in the past i had crews going out and it just led to other issues and it seemed all i was doing was putting out fires.

i never wanted to have a big business but i always wanted to make good money so the way i do things now gives me a happy median.
i was able to increase my businesses income without haveing to increase my work force.
another reason i wanted bigger jobs and less customers is that after all the years of interacting with the customers i was getting burnt and this way i have less clients to deal with.

it is not easy by any stretch and the competition is just as feirce and it also depends on where you live.
i am lucky because where i live it seems that every company on the planet has a corporate headquarters or office in my county so that helps me out a ton.
when i started out i wanted to keep it simple and i never thought about being a manager so to say and just direct people and i still don't but i came to realization that at 45 years old i have to start thinking about when i can not physically do the work no more.
this business is my retirement and my pension and i need to make sure it will provide me income until my last breath as well as carry my kids if they so choose to take it over one day.

i had a older good freind who had a nice little business going with just him and 2 workers.
he was at it a long time and for a three man operation was making some good green.
he had nice newer equipment, trucks and trailers and he was just as professional and equiped as anyone could be and the only comparison you could even make between him and another company would purely be based on size, which don't matter anyway.

he built a great business that made good money but his only flaw was that he built something that without him would come to a stop.
and so it did one day when he just dropped to the ground and died.
his wife was not really involved in the business and was completely blindsided by his sudden departure.
his kids were still too young to know or do anything and because he wanted to keep it simple and do it all and just have basic laborers, he had no one in place to help keep it going.
long story short the wife ended up having to sell everything and disolve the business and now she lives a very financially unstable life as a result.

i am not saying that everyone who starts a business has to think this way but when you get older and you been at it a while you do and my path is just a evolution of 22 years in business and if you told me 22 years ago what i would be doing today i would have told you you were crazy.

we like to think we don't but we all change as we get older in how we think and what we consider important.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:16 AM
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Hi Chris,
I currently operate using subs so this may be of interest to you. First....yes, it is 100% possible and I'm living proof. Above all else, keep that in mind.

Now......based on the info you gave....
#1 I would scratch the idea of getting people to market for you / paying them for each lead, etc. You can put in a little time, marketing with a little money and get results, which will turn into customers, which will multiply slowly with referrals, next door neighbors, etc. If the correct ad in a good location can get you 4-5 customers over the course of a season......multiply the # of ads out and in turn, multiply the amount of customers you can get. With your idea, you will have no idea if it's the person selling the job or the ad that worked......or vice versa.

#2. You said you finished your first season. I would work on your marketing, and as you gain new clients, work as much as you can (gaining experience) to where you can price yards accordingly and extra work accordingly. You should not be 'new at this' still when looking to sub and confidence comes with running your own business first. Maybe get at least another season (or two) under your belt and get some good 'ol blood, sweat and tears put into your company. Nothing beats experience.

#3. Then, and only then, go talk to your insurance guy and let him know what you are planning to do (I met with mine again today). Insurance for me alone for the year is $500 ($1 mil coverage) and my truck under a commercial policy is $1000 so right about $1500. My minimal equipment is used so only a little bit I have actually chosen to have covered for replacement (keeping costs down)

#4. You can advertise on Craigslist in your area to find subs. You will be able to weed them out by their responses (who offers proof of insurance, referrals, how long they've been in business, etc.) One ad this past week (looking to expand again in 2012) got me 25 responses back from solo ops, large crews and everyone in between looking for 'fill in' work. Now begins the interviewing / looking at their operation, etc.

#5. I'm paying/keeping right about 80/20 of revenue. I still mow a few favorite customers because I still love being outdoors and completing the job and getting paid right away (or prepaid for the month).

#6. I've gone the '2 trucks, 2 crews, crapload of equipment, crapload of financing, crapload of payments, crapload of headache' route long ago. Right now I am not limited by 'how far can I drive to stay profitable' scenerio. I have accounts all around the area and outside my immediate area to places I would never consider taking an account. BUT.....I have reliable crews in each area.

#7. This one I believe to be very very important. I am limiting how many accounts any one sub has. Yes.....it means more subs. BUT....the risk is extremely minimal. A sub who gets 5 yards to mow has no effect on the other 200. When it's going to be a crappy week for weather, it's not that hard to work my 5 accounts in. Give someone 20-30 and it could be a problem. Think of it like the stock market and I have basically invested my money in a lot of different stocks. Things will fluctuate minimally but I haven't banked all my money on a couple crews doing their job just like I hope no one puts all their money in 1-2 companies on the stock market.

#8. Yes, a lot of folks have tried this and it has not worked. I have tried to work out and eliminate the reasons that have caused it to not work for others and I know what makes the subs tick. I was once one years and years ago so I've seen it from both sides of the fence (again...experience). A friend of mine is doing the exact same thing with janitorial services in and out of his area. Same concept.

Hope this helps.
It can be done....just go SLOWLY.
Look at it this way. It's pretty hard to quickly build up to 500 clients and what it takes to mow 500 clients. It is not hard for 100 I/C's in 100 areas to service 5 yards each.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:31 AM
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I will bump onto what DPLD stated right after your original post. You need to stay up on the day to day operations, just as you would if you were running the crew and doing the work. Now....as with me....your risk would be spread out across the I/C's.
Then there is 'which crew can do snow removal'......'who can do cleanups, mulching, etc' questions that arise.
I don't think you stated that you wanted to sit on the beach and do nothing so I will assume that you still want to run and grow the business.....which I think is a great idea. Don't throw away your work boots just yet
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