Recession over????

[fieroboi]

Originally Posted by Steve I think the media and the politicians tend to want things to be black and white. It's either the economy is crumbling or the recession is over. Everything seems to be an extreme and it always seems to be happening right now. This economic situation we are in now didn't happen over night. It took many many years. To recover from this situation will take many many years as well. I don't think we have even made it through the worst yet. Not until we start seeing more jobs being created and more people back at work. The creation of businesses and jobs is a priority now but it is going to be a slow road. People will need money to spend in order to increase the need of products and services. I think you hit the nail on the head Steve, what we are seeing is what the media and politicians want us to see. Of course they are extreme, they want us to believe that things are better and that we can afford to open up our wallets once more and spend money. I don't know about you, but I have to admit, I learned one thing from this economic situation and that is that I will strive to continue to do business with little (less than a $1000) to no debt. If I can't pay cash for it, then I don't need it. I've had to watch my sister struggle with keeping up with the payments on her house that she and her hubby purchased 2 - 3 years ago. It is no where near the value that she paid for it. A friend of mine that is struggling to find full time employment and is working two part time jobs finds things so stressful as he is working along side recent imigrants who due to the situation over a year ago moved here and were guaranteed full time jobs that the companies are required to maintain (some contract agreement with the government). So in the meantime what do the people do that lost jobs in the crisis???? Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT blame the imigrants, but rather the governement for being so short sighted on what was developing. As commented earlier, this was something that has taken years to develop, we (governments) should have seen it coming. I do believe that we will see many more people go into work for themselves, and I'm sure many will get into the business. I hope and plan to stay strong, viable and provide top quality work for my clients. I still think things will be tough, but as the old saying goes ... "When the going gets tough ... the TOUGH get going!" Lloyd Blue's YardFX Camrose, AB

[Steve]

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I don't know about you, but I have to admit, I learned one thing from this economic situation and that is that I will strive to continue to do business with little (less than a $1000) to no debt. You are not alone. Another investor by the name of Warren Buffett shares in your view of debt. Warren Buffett does not like debt and does not like to invest in companies that have too much debt, particularly long-term debt. With long-term debt, increases in interest rates can drastically affect company profits and make future cash flows less predictable. I've had to watch my sister struggle with keeping up with the payments on her house that she and her hubby purchased 2 - 3 years ago. It is no where near the value that she paid for it. Many, many people are having huge issues with homes and debt now. When you have a fulltime job, you tend to get lulled into this illusion that what ever they pay you, you are worth on the open market. So if this job ends, another will begin and you will get the same pay if not more. This is a fallacy. Signing on the dotted line for a 30 year loan is a risk. No doubt about it. For a long time people were required to put 20% down on a home so they had some skin in the game. They were showing they were making a commitment to paying the home off and also, if they got into financial trouble, they would have equity in the home so they could sell it and not be underwater. Recently we saw it was possible to buy a home with no money down. No proof of income. And pay only the interest for the first 7 years where you could then re-finance the mortgage once again to another exotic payment plan. Any time you take on debt, you are taking on a risk. Debt had become so freely available it was like crack. Our society got addicted to it. Why not then take on as much debt as I possibly can get my hands on? That became the mantra and that led to huge problems. As we come out of this, we will learn to save more and take on less debt until people no longer remember this recession and then start to take on more debt again and the cycle will repeat itself.

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[fieroboi]

Everything you say Steve is very true, I think we (society in general) started believing things would never end.

Originally Posted by Steve

As we come out of this, we will learn to save more and take on less debt until people no longer remember this recession and then start to take on more debt again and the cycle will repeat itself.

This so reminds me of what my dad had told me about my grandfather and the recession in the 30's. My grandfather had gone out in 1929 and borrowed money to buy a new tractor and thrashing machine for the farm. Then the 30's hit and well, he had to go back to doing everything with the horses as he could not afford to buy fuel to run the tractor except during harvest. My dad said the recession had such an impact on my grandfather as he nearly lost the whole farm on the fact that he had borrowed to buy this equipment, that he never borrowed money ever again and only paid cash for things. It wasn't until the mid seventies that the farm borrowed money again.

I didn't learn my lesson in debt until I ended up divorced and could not pay things off. Once I got things fixed up, I have stayed virtually debt free ever since.


Lloyd
Blue's YardFX
Camrose, AB

Originally Posted by Steve

What do you think he meant by this? I never saw any of our issues as issues with the Muslim world. This wasn't a religious based issue. At least not to me.

It was more of a 'seek out these knuckle head terrorist training camps and wipe them clear off the planet.'

If you and your buddies set up a terrorist camp like this



And you are following a person that looks like this.



You are going to meet your end with one of these.

Do you mean you don't see the whole terrorist thing as a religious thing? Because I believe it is, whether we want it to be or not.

[Steve]

Do you mean you don't see the whole terrorist thing as a religious thing? Because I believe it is, whether we want it to be or not.

My take is this. Bin Laden uses religion to work people up into a frenzy. It's very easy to do this when you use religion in that way.

History will repeat this again and again and again.

WWII, Hitler rises to power and points out to his fellow countrymen that there are evil forces keeping Germany from being mighty. He looked around and picked a group that he thought he could dominate. First it was the Jews, the Gypsies, the homosexuals. They were all rounded up and killed. Then he claims Germany has the master race of people that need to defend themselves against others.

Later, the enemy became Poland, then France, then England, Then America and Russia and then it all collapsed on top of him.

Bin Laden is no different than Hitler in my eyes. He works a group of disillusioned weak minded people to think America wants to destroy Islam. He says its the Muslims vs America. It's easy to say and it's easy to scare people saying that but we have a country here that is a cross section of the world. We have every religion here, every ethnic group. People from every other nation living here.

We can't as a society go against anyone based on religion or based on nationality.

If our leaders are at odds with the leadership of another country's leaders, very rarely do the people of those two nations have issues with each other. People in general are just too busy trying to get by and dont have the time to have issues with this group or that group and I think that applies to everyone everywhere.

Most people just want to live their own life.

Disenchanted, lost people seek out leaders like Bin Laden who create conspiracies and get them aligned to fight a battle that exists only in their minds.

But that's just my take.

I am afraid I have to disagree on this point.

When you go back and look, the Muslim people have been fighting other religions for as long as they (the Muslims) have been around. Why? Well it all started back in Biblical times. And it has never changed. It was a religious difference back then and it still is.

The Muslims hate us in part because of our alliance and friendship with Israel. The Muslims and the Israelis have hated each other for thousands of years. Why? Here is why....

Ishmael, who is the father of what would alter become the Muslim belief system and Isaac, the Father of the Israelites, were half brothers. So both of them claim the same ground as theirs, thus the constant fight in the Gaza area. They will never get along. The bible tells us that.

People say that the Muslim faith is not a violent belief system. I am told by credible sources that if you really read the Koran that you will find that the Koran really does teach violence against "infidels" which is simply put, anyone who does not agree with them.

So watch this video: "What does the Koran teach about terrorism". Once you have watched this video, about 2 former Muslim Jihadists, think about the whole religious question. I believe you will agree that it has always been about Jihad and religion.

So thus, I say that This has been a matter of religion, whether we want it to be or not. This is also why I take issue with Obama's statement. We can not agree with someone like this without also yoking up with them, in this case, in a spiritual manner.

[fieroboi]

Historically, religion has always been one of the main excuses used to create wars in the past, and I'm sure will continue to be.

However, I don't think that is the reason we (the world globally) is in a recession. Society in general has over spent and over valued things in life, and it is due to the greed of society that we find ourselves in this situation.

Society can not continue to over spend and constantly buy on credit, at some point we must pay the piper. There must be some middle ground, sure not everyone will or can afford to buy a house, but when it takes two incomes and on the upper end of middle class to afford a house I think scoiety has an issue. Hhhmmm ... I think that the French Revolution started something along that way!

Lloyd
Blue's YardFX
Camrose, AB