It may just be over

[jasonw]

I honestly think you hit the nail on the head with that last line. I have hired people in the past for odd jobs and I would honestly say that I would pay $100 per hour for a good honest worker so I guess the question is, how does one determined how much they are worth lol. Whats to stop me from saying I am worth $500 per hour other than the fact that no one would hire me lol.

Originally Posted by ringahding1

I'm certain I have said this somewhere on this forum before: "You gotta be a hustler"...You need to convince yourself you can sell water to a well...

• Sell yourself not your machine, your truck, etc.

• What are you worth, really per hour? $50, $60? Once you know, you will be able to COMPARE your mowing times from other jobs you actually have done or do.

Let's say your work ethic is worth $50 per hour. Lawn mowing with all the extras(trimming & blowing)takes you a 1/2 hour....Ya think $25?(too low ~ Joe)Bump it up $5 ~ Bam ! ! $30

Now get 10 of those $30 jobs, you are in business. I personally think you are a hard worker that is lacking the confidence to sell YOURSELF

[SECTLANDSCAPING]

Originally Posted by jasonw

Do you find such unreliability a trend in this industry? I have found when giving quotes the most common complaint I hear is "They just stopped showing up"

To many part timers with another job. They cant pick up the phone at the other job and have to work and quote on there day off. They end up giving up or taking work they cant handle and working for gas money.

[ringahding1]

Originally Posted by jasonw

I honestly think you hit the nail on the head with that last line. I have hired people in the past for odd jobs

If you are truly going to start over ~

• Do not hire anybody until the workload becomes completely overwhelming!

• Do Not quit your full time until the steady income has arrived

• Your Hourly Rate ~ Let's be realistic

Just recently I posted about the new skid steer I purchased. If you read it you will note that is was a decision I have been battling with for the past 3 years.

Why did I finally break down and get it, you ask? MORE jobs, simple! The snow account contracts were getting signed, and I was actually having more jobs than equipment....this = overwhelming!

Normally instinct should take over. Purchase = a needed JUSTIFICATION.
I don't know 13 commercial accounts, up from 6 last year...JUSTIFIED!

Let's be honest, I have been in business for 10 years and have a steady income that has given me this option. This option would have never presented itself if I did not put in the hard work.

Dude(that is right, I said Dude...42 year old kid)My wife is an over-educated woman with countless degrees in Business, Accounting & a PHD in Education & even she looks at me sideways in amazement that we are living off of this business.

Mowing lawns for a living? Who wouldn't kinda shake their head?

[jasonw]

Thank you to everyone, you have all been a great help.

[Organic Ken]

The way you set your rate has nothing to do with what the other guy is charging. You figure out what it takes to run your business and "sell" that to the customer.

figure your costs on a yearly basis then break it down to monthly and then hourly, then look at the job an decide how long, on average, its going to take you to do it the right way.

Assume you have enough accounts to keep you busy 40 hrs a week. So if you want to make $30,000 per year, and you want to buy $2,000 in equipment, and you need $2,000 for gas and repairs, $2,000 for insurance. and $2,000 for taxes, that,s $38,000 per year. (I'm using rough numbers - up to you to determine what your costs are going to be. This is the first job of a business owner!)

So divide the 38,000 by 52 weeks divide by 40 hrs/ week gives you $18.27 per hour.

So if your bidding a job and you think it will take you 30 min/ week then quote them $9.14 per week or monthly would be 9.14 X 4.3= $39.30 per month.

Make sense?

By the way, I'm talking lawn care, not weed wacking and lot clearing.

[jasonw]

Something I just thought of while revisiting this post, We don't have 52 serviceable weeks per year. We only have about 6 months which by your number "doubled since you divide 52 by 2" Which put's a person at $18.28 per visit per week for a total of $73.12 per client per month which for my in town residential service is not far off. Towards the end of the season I was charging $20 per week which I felt was WAY to low but that's what I was charging for $80 per month. That is only a few dollars more than your numbers but considering that there are NO lawns that need to be mowed over winter time here. This is not even considering at current prices $9.14 per week would not even pay for the gas in the truck and equipment, It might if you had 100 accounts within a small area but that is un likely, we live in a far spread county so one trip from one town to another for service would cost more than the service you perform at those prices. For larger jobs I am still getting $200 per acer and with my equipment it takes me about 4 hours to do a GOOD job which put's me at about $25 per half hour of work. That is money I can agree with, $9.14 per half hour of works puts me at $18.28 per hour to run my own business which is less than the mill is paying me per hour to work an 8 hour day and let them run their own business.

[jasonw]

Again, like you said Ken none of this includes weed eating or land clearing, just lawn care during the time of the year in our area that laws require care which is NOT all year round.

[jymie]

In my area, I will not go any lower than $25 for any lawn, regardless of the size of it. I went through that thought of taking anyone who would call me and charge what they wanted to pay. Not anymore, those were the customers that were just looking for the lowest guy to come along. Forget about getting any additional work from those ones. I rather have $30 and up yards all day long, at least those ones you can market your other services to as they will most likely have you do other things for them like trim bushes, weed the beds and mulch installs. The cheapo will never have you do anything else. I have found that when I'm trying to sell a service to an existing customer, provide them with pictures of your before and after work, that sells bigger than you just saying you do this or that.

[SECTLANDSCAPING]

Jymie, I was at $30 last year and will be $35 this year. I found that 90% of my problems came from lawns under $40. From nonpayment to complaining. There just not worth it.

Originally Posted by jasonw

That is money I can agree with, $9.14 per half hour of works puts me at $18.28 per hour to run my own business which is less than the mill is paying me per hour to work an 8 hour day and let them run their own business.

Thats what it comes down too. If youll make more money working for someone else with less stress, Then whats the point?

Working 40 hours a week to make $30k is less then what the average person makes.

Jason, if you cant get money in mowing. Find a few services that you can. Just use the lawn service to cover some expenses and get in the door. The best service is a dirty job that no one wants to do. I'm the only company in the area that does Roof Cleaning. I can name my price. No one has the experience or the know how to compete. The only landscaper that offers chimney sweeping and sealcoating. I keep looking for niche services to get into.

The majority of guys run their business the opposite way I do. I could careless about cutting grass. Its my lowest profit and most time consuming service. In 2012 I average over $200 a hour in 4 different services.

[djlandscaping06]

Originally Posted by dpld

i am sorry to hear you are having trouble and considering getting out of business.
with that said and without knowing all the details of what is not working for you i would suggest you keep it going and seek the help to find out what you are doing wrong.
if you are doing something wrong then the signs will be there and maybe you are so consumed by the misery of not being where you want to be that you can not see it but someone else may be able to see the things you are doing wrong more easily and give you the insight to make the corrections to get it going on the right track.

a couple other things you need to consider is, 1. we have a horrible economy right now and most businesses are not doing all that well and growing in leaps and bounds.
2. the general population is struggling and barely treading water right now and as a result people are just not spending money like they did in the past and depending on which state you live in it could be even worse.
3. i don't know where you get your information from but it takes more then a couple years to get a business going and from my experience as well as most of the information i have read and learned from my financial advisers over the last 23 years of being in business the general rule of thumb would be 5 years.
the landscape business is a fickle business and most rules don't always apply because it is a highly competitive business that also requires you to build up a client base that takes years to do.
if you had a retail business in a strip mall where your customers come to you i would say that after a few years if you were still struggling you would probably be in trouble.

my business for example had a couple different life cycles, when i started i took everything i could get and had work but most of my clients were just your everyday run of the mill basic customer who only wanted the bare minimum. then i started to replace them with high end accounts that were full service and i ended up with 150 accounts of high end customers that had gorgeous properties and spared no expense.
i was making good money but i was not happy with the direction i was going and thought i could do better and make more.
i then decided i wanted to get into big commercial properties where i could make more money with larger contracted jobs where i only needed a handful of accounts instead of having to deal with 150 accounts every week and 150 bills to write every month.
when i was in that transition i got to a point where i had to phase out my existing accounts and give up that safety net i spent all those years building up and step back into that grey area of uncertainty.

it was tough and had some brutal moments where i thought i made a big mistake and screwed myself but i held the course and kept plugging away and eventually it all worked out.

the morale of the story is a business is a series of evolution's and it takes a great deal of time to get established and it is like a roller coaster ride and if your season is pretty much wrapped up and you have a job to provide you a income then maybe you should take the down time to assess what you are doing wrong and recharge your batteries and get you equipment back in order and come back next year with all your guns a blazing.

maybe as time goes on you can keep us all posted and better enlighten us as to what exactly you are doing and we can all help you make the right choices to get you going in the right direction.
there are plenty of people here that can give you advice and help you and i am sure that everyone here would be glad to help.

i myself would be happy to help and i am 100% positive that everyone here feels the same way.
i also feel obligated to help a fellow tradesman out because in the end we are all a bad stretch away from calling it quits and we all have so much to gain by helping each other out rather then go it alone and fend for ourselves.

good luck and keep us posted and don't do anything in haste.

This is going on my 7th year in business and I still do a 40 hr a week regular job to keep everything going but just the last couple years I have made decent money but still when it all was said and done money from the business is all gone just to make it thru the winter months. After looking at everything for this next season I believe this will be my best year but it has took me 6 to get there. Several seasons had a lot of equipment troubles that ate a lot of my profit but I kept at it and would not give up and it has and is going to get better! You can do it if you just keep plugging! Believe me I wanted to give up many times but I just knew in my heart that if kept on it would eventually work!

Be persistant. Figure out what is wrong and make it right and then give it all you got! I wish you the best!