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I hate Subs

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  • #16
    I had a guy that was in the area and said he would clear a lot for me. From 4 a.m till 8 a.m he played games. After giving up on the guy I finally was able to make it there at 9:30 and the client was pissed. I ended up losing a contract with them and this one is close to being gone.

    I had 6 people fill out applications. Talked to them all asking if they would be ready tonight. They all told me yes. Then when I started calling not one would pick up the phone. I was already short staffed and a truck went down. I was scrambling to find help. Finally a guy from Rhode Island showed up at 5 am. I couldve sent him to the above location but the other guy said he was 5 minutes away. Then time went by and I went up myself to find the lot was untouched.
    I feel your pain. The last two years have been horrible with me and subs. With plowing I have used six subs in the last five years on one property alone. It's a doctors office that opens up at 5am so it needs to be done. Seriously, how hard is it to have the snow removed before 4am?

    The other subs that I always go through are irrigation companies. The worst is when they tell me when they are going to be there, so I have to go over to shut off the security system, but then they never show up. No phone call, no answering their phone, nothing.

    This year we are really pulling everything back in house though. This may be our last year using subs.
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    • #17

      This year we are really pulling everything back in house though. This may be our last year using subs.
      Thats what I was trying to do but I didnt have any luck finding a new truck. In a way its cheaper short term to hire a subcontractor. I paid one sub for two storms almost what I spent on repairs for one truck in a week.

      It can even happen with a employee. Today one of my better guys walked off the job because I wouldnt do something his way. Some people have nerve.

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      • #18
        Thats what I was trying to do but I didnt have any luck finding a new truck. In a way its cheaper short term to hire a subcontractor. I paid one sub for two storms almost what I spent on repairs for one truck in a week.

        It can even happen with a employee. Today one of my better guys walked off the job because I wouldnt do something his way. Some people have nerve.
        I know what you mean about using subs. The cost is just so much better. But lately with the lack of control, and the lack of quality we are going to pull it in. We realize that the up front cost to get everything back in house will be large, but in the long term it will be better for us. It's almost like starting all over again.
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        • #19
          i mentioned in earlier posts in other threads that i know this dude who has a multi million dollar snow business. 95% of his properties is done by subs.

          he hires subs to do each individual task and he has it broken into routes and has owner drivers with trucks, owner operators with machines and he even has seperate crews subbed out for the walks.

          he also hires them based on his needs where as if the route is pretty set with "A" subs then he would build a "B" list of secondary subs for no shows and break downs as well as if it is a long snow event and guys need to take breaks.

          i know you may be reading this saying " what does this have to do with a little guy like me that just needs a guy or two for extra help ", but my point is everyone that works for him signs a contract and unless all the paperwork is in place you will not work and he will use someone else.

          the snow shovel routes are set in stone and the pay varies based on the depth of snow and the drivers and operators get varying rates based on plow size and machine size as well as if they have their own workers comp insurance or if they don't he takes a cut to include you on his coverage.

          he has a very nice system in place and the contracts he uses cover all the bases and can be used for any business size big or small.
          he also works out of three states NJ,NY and PA so his contracts take into consideration the different and various labor laws and such.

          i used to work for him years ago when i had a truck i wanted to keep moving and i have a copy of his full sub contractor agreement so if i can figure out how to scan it and get it into the talking picture box i will post it up for all to use.
          and if i can not figure it out i'll mail it to you if you like.

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          • #20
            i have a copy of his full sub contractor agreement so if i can figure out how to scan it and get it into the talking picture box i will post it up for all to use.
            That would be great to see and I am sure it would be helpful. If you can, either scan it or take a picture of it and attach it. Thanks!
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            • #21
              That would be great to see and I am sure it would be helpful. If you can, either scan it or take a picture of it and attach it. Thanks!
              steve, here is the contract i was reffering to and if you think it needs to be moved elsewhere on the site feel free to do so.


              this particular agreement was based on me being a sub with a truck and there were a couple different types as far as what you were being hired to do for example: driver, machine operator or snow shoveler.
              but this agreement is pretty much the same for all with the exception of what you are hired to do.

              some parts i had to white out like my name to protect the innocent in case the dude see's it

              i also accidently included two of the first page and for the life of me i can not remove it but i am sure all of you will figure that out.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by dpld; 01-24-2012, 11:30 AM.

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              • #22
                Thank you! Did you feel the agreement was fair to both parties or did you find it favored one side over the other?

                Would you use it if you were to hire sub contractors to perform snow removal?
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                • #23
                  Thank you! Did you feel the agreement was fair to both parties or did you find it favored one side over the other?

                  Would you use it if you were to hire sub contractors to perform snow removal?
                  overall it was fair, but it did lean slightly towards the business owner.

                  in this day and age you need to have something in place to not only get everthing out in the open in the beginning but to protect all the parties involved so there will be no misunderstandings.

                  without a contract it leaves a business owner open to situations where the sub does not feel like performing his duties and leaves you high and dry and the contract is a nice reminder to any subs that you have made a legal binding agreement that they must honor.
                  everyone will promise you the moon and the stars but when it comes time to deliver their attitude changes and when the business owner has made obligations to his customers he has to make sure he will not have these problems and the contract does partially eliminate these types.

                  i found in life that people who generally do not fullfill their obligations do not like to sign contracts and once again by useing contracts it helps weed these types out.

                  and to answer your question, yes i would use a similar contract if i were to use subs.

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