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Wayne909
09-22-2009, 01:10 AM
I been running my tree service for some time now as a 2 man operation mainly, but a 3rd on call guy since he works nights at a factory.

Any how here is the problem at hand: I have been hit with 7 large jobs, all with in 1 week.. All where referred to me.. 3 out of the 7 have 8-12 trees needing to come down.. 2 out of the 7 have trees on 3 lots (around 3-5 per lot ). Which is no problem since i have the gear needed, but the man power i do not. As in to get them done in a reasonable period to move on to the smaller jobs. So I'm considering contract labor for 5 out of the 7 jobs, and have never brought in contract labor be for.. So my question is how does this work, as in do i have to provide coverage etc to these guys like my own? are do they have to cover there self + pay in their own tax's?

Like i said i have never really consider are even thought about contract labor.. So its really a gray area for me. So if any one as any experience using contract labors, help me out please.

Thanks in advance.

jasonw
09-22-2009, 01:58 AM
If they are subcontractors they need to take care of there own crap. If you hire family you don't need comp insurance, at least not in California.

Wayne909
09-22-2009, 02:09 AM
If they are subcontractors they need to take care of there own crap. If you hire family you don't need comp insurance, at least not in California.

Yes their subcontractors, and i thought that was how it worked.. but considering i never looked into hiring subcontractors, i was unsure of how it would work out. So thanks for that info.

I never hire family, that never works out well;)

picframer
09-22-2009, 06:33 AM
Yes their subcontractors, and i thought that was how it worked.. but considering i never looked into hiring subcontractors, i was unsure of how it would work out. So thanks for that info.

I never hire family, that never works out well;)

Had to do this a few times this summer for tree work, just a word of caution make sure the owner knows you are sub contracting and make sure they have insurance, also check them out, I had one that caused me a massive headache.

Wayne909
09-22-2009, 07:15 AM
Had to do this a few times this summer for tree work, just a word of caution make sure the owner knows you are sub contracting and make sure they have insurance, also check them out, I had one that caused me a massive headache.

Thanks for the advice. I been asking around about 2 I'm considering using, and leaning to one that's pretty respected from what i hear.. That had been referred to me by another tree man who used them.. So more then likely that will be the crew i use.

Although I'm interested in how one caused you a headache if you don't mind me asking?

picframer
09-22-2009, 08:36 PM
Thanks for the advice. I been asking around about 2 I'm considering using, and leaning to one that's pretty respected from what i hear.. That had been referred to me by another tree man who used them.. So more then likely that will be the crew i use.

Although I'm interested in how one caused you a headache if you don't mind me asking?

I have reason to believe the references I called were hoax or family.

They couldn't fall a tree if their life depended on it, one took the side of the customers garage.

The mess they left was totally unacceptable, I sent three guys in for four days at my expense to clean things up.

So for now the only thing I do is refer the client if we can't do the work due to not having staff or I simply explain we do not have the resources.

When you are not in control, you have no control. What I mean by that is if I sub I am putting my reputation on the line, I am very detailed and I know many companies are but they seem to be in the same boat as me, too much to do and not enough staff to do it.

FloridaBoy
09-22-2009, 09:45 PM
I agree %100 with Andy, If you are not in control, you don't know what is happening on the job site.

I just subed out some work for a concrete job, but the demolition i did on my own, rented the heavy equipment,trck loader, jack hammer etc. So, as i was doing that work, they were right behind me forming up for the driveway, and i stuck around while they poured and did the finish work. They can't leave or get paid untill i was sattisfied with the job.

Maybe the other company wouldn't mind bringing there crew and gear to your jobsites while you are there and in control.

I don't know about your area, but businesses are hurting, they will accomidate you very well if they want the work badly enough. If not, then tell them to take a hike, get you some day labor guys to do the light duty, cleanup work, tell a couple of the clients you will knock off some money if they can wait a week or so to get there work done, and do all the work yourself.

May not work in your situation, but just some ideas. Good Luck

Wayne909
09-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Well just got back from my meeting with the crew I'm going to use. I took him out to the job sites and we had a very long discussion over who will be running the show and how i expected it to be done.. I told him i would be coming by each job site at random times during operations, and he had no problem with that. So after talking with him, and checking up on some of his past work(including past sub work he done).. He is now my sub.

They will start on their end Thursday, so I'll let you guys know how they work.


Thanks for the info above, I'll keep that in mind when checking in on them.


P.S: Yes they have to bring their own equip.. Although i have spare equip if anything happens.

Steve
09-23-2009, 05:18 PM
They will start on their end Thursday, so I'll let you guys know how they work.

I look forwards to hearing the updates!

When you are not in control, you have no control. What I mean by that is if I sub I am putting my reputation on the line, I am very detailed and I know many companies are but they seem to be in the same boat as me, too much to do and not enough staff to do it.

This seems like it can be such a problem, how best can a small business grow when you are dealing with such issues?

It really makes me wonder how best to go about it.

The other night I stopped in at a Burger King later in the evening and it appears they had a 3 member staff all under the age of 25 running this million dollar facility.

How is it that Burger King can turn over the reigns like this to such a young and underpaid staff and I still get the same burger as I would get if I went in there at noon?

How can things be made this way for this industry?

Wayne909
09-24-2009, 05:07 AM
The other night I stopped in at a Burger King later in the evening and it appears they had a 3 member staff all under the age of 25 running this million dollar facility.

How is it that Burger King can turn over the reigns like this to such a young and underpaid staff and I still get the same burger as I would get if I went in there at noon?

How can things be made this way for this industry?

Well age to me as no bearing on a persons work ethic. I hired 1 more full time yesterday(19 year old), and my Foreman running the crew is only 22 years old. So when I'm away he is in charge of the crew that soon will be 3 man(not including myself). I made him foreman because he don't mind to step up when things get harry. Takes care of my equip like it was his own (hard to find in a person), and is always the first on the lot in the mornings... Even be for me most of the time, and that's a good thing to see in a worker. He also makes $3 more an hour on top of his new foreman bonus for being an EMT (through volunteer fire dept). He is making more then any factory around here pays, so I'll leave it at that.

Burger kings low pay, around here it's $7-8 per hour.. That's pretty good flipping burgers i guess. My new guys make just a little more then that an hour, start off is $10 to new guys(6mo if they work out $11, plus paid training etc).

Well off to the lot.

picframer
09-24-2009, 06:09 AM
Agree with Wayne, age has nothing to do with it.

The difference is all process, Burger King and places like that, every thing is the same in the process of cooking to delivery of the burger, all you have to do is teach the process and it would be the same no matter which location you worked in.

In our business there is a process however it covers very little of the job, take cutting a tree for example, you can't say to an employee, here is what you do from start to finish and expect the results, there are so many variables including size, which side of the tree has the most weight, wind that day etc.

Cleaning up to me is common sense yet some of the sites I drive by where other companies have been make me shake my head, when we leave a construction site, you can barely tell we were there when it comes to cleaning and putting things back.

caver95
09-24-2009, 08:34 AM
There is a book called The E-Myth Revisited, its a good read for all business owners.
I work for a small company that does very well for having 20 employees. There are standards in place, but not everything is cut and dry( so they need to know how to adapt), the owner works a lot but because she likes it. I am graduating in may with a degree in business administration, and I will be starting my MBA the month after. I would set up a training and standards manual, of guidelines of how you want things done. Write it like you would do it. If you dont have a business plan you should write one or buy one. if you have a www.score.org in your area they can be a great free resource. I am also debt averse so if you cant pay cash for it deal without it until you can.

Steve
09-24-2009, 02:14 PM
I work for a small company that does very well for having 20 employees. There are standards in place, but not everything is cut and dry( so they need to know how to adapt), the owner works a lot but because she likes it.

What do you feel this company had that many others don't that allowed them to grow to 20 employees? There must be something to it that many others don't see.

caver95
09-25-2009, 06:32 AM
What do you feel this company had that many others don't that allowed them to grow to 20 employees? There must be something to it that many others don't see.

The Company I work for is in an unrelated field to lawn service, but it is a service company. They started out in 1993, they under promise and over deliver, that is my buzz word for the day. I have been doing accounting work for them for the past 10 months. They have no debt for one, they put the client first, nothing but the most professional work comes out of the office, The exec. team meets weekly to discuss current and future business, they have a business development guy who busts his butt. When they hire people they get the best they can and it takes a while to make sure they new employee would be a good fit with the team. The owners take good care of the employees, but the also sign a non compete contract.They anticipate changes in the market place, they treat their employees well but set a high standard for them to meet, and everything is done with "how is this going to affect the client?"

Steve
09-25-2009, 03:15 PM
How do they manage their staff in the field to make sure everything is done right?

The owners take good care of the employees, but the also sign a non compete contract.

What does this contract keep them from doing if they were to quit or be fired?

caver95
09-26-2009, 08:38 AM
States they cannot work for any clients, or in the area for one year after leaving the company. They brainstorm at the office and set up what they do in the field and they follow it, I have not been there long enough to see someone fail in the field. I have been there almost 10 months and thats pretty good. The biggest thing is time tracking. I run the reports out and the people are bad about reporting their time, 90% of the clients are on retainer so it does not really matter for billing, but it can skew when it comes to renegotiating the next contract for the same kind of project.

Wayne909
09-27-2009, 10:51 AM
States they cannot work for any clients, or in the area for one year after leaving the company.

If you mean buy working in the city/area of the company.. I doubt that any contract like that would hold up in court. They can not legally say you cant not work in this city are any company near theirs.. They can how ever say you can not work for their company within a 1 year of leaving(some do 2 years if fired).

not sure if I'm misunderstanding what your saying however.

caver95
09-28-2009, 08:03 AM
If you mean buy working in the city/area of the company.. I doubt that any contract like that would hold up in court. They can not legally say you cant not work in this city are any company near theirs.. They can how ever say you can not work for their company within a 1 year of leaving(some do 2 years if fired).

not sure if I'm misunderstanding what your saying however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause

Green2Green
09-28-2009, 10:26 AM
work. Can they be challenged in court? Yes, but then again any contract can be challenged in court.

Business' use Non-Compete's to protect themselves. What good would it be for you to train someone for whatever period of time and then they dodge on you and go to a competitor or start up their own company in direct competition with you? Having done nothing more that used you and your company for their gain. This can also helps to prevent corporate espionage. Although, nothing is full proof is does give a business owner a legal standing.

Also, depending upon the industry, a Non-Compete may have an Intellectual Property Clause in it or a seperate agreement governing such to protect the company. You planning, stratagies and developments can and should be protected.

When challenged in court some hold up and some don't, but it certainly puts a potential employee on notice.

Steve
09-28-2009, 02:02 PM
This does make me wonder what is the best way to keep a valued employee?

Does anyone actually use non-compete contracts? Have they found them to be helpful?

Or are there other better ways to keep valued employees?

caver95
09-29-2009, 07:26 AM
I am in a business law class, and we talked about FL labor and employment laws last night, this came up. The are enforcible in FL. If you put in there you can work for anyone in the area, engage in the same kind of business steal clients, for a a time period. it must be reasonable.

Green2Green
09-29-2009, 08:05 AM
Steve,

A Non-Compete isn't used to KEEP good employee's. It's merely a protection mechanism for companies. They are quite often used in other industries. More so in larger companies in my opinion, but can be used by any business owner.

Regarding keeping good employee's, the way I've always felt is to treat your employee's well and the dividend that will be paid will be proportional. Building a good team that works well together and in harmony with your companies philosophies that has a can do attitude is what all employers should strive for. Little perks and At-A-Boy or Girl awards in some form or fashion along with fair pay and a healthy work environment with a Boss that truly cares will help to keep GOOD employee's.

Having said that, also protect your company, because employee's can and often do try to take advantage of a good thing.

Just my 2 cents.

Wayne909
09-29-2009, 08:11 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause


You should never use wikipidea to try and prove anything.. Any one with no knowledge can edit wikipedia to their likings. My old collage English teacher printed out and showed the class how many errors, none facts, made up stuff etc there was within one page of wikipedia.

Also i was not referring to Non-compete, read my post again where i say "I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what your saying". As in they cant work for "any" company's within that area and not saying any company with in the same business as company in question.

So all in all i misunderstood the reply's meaning.:)