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Steve
08-01-2009, 02:32 PM
Is anyone taking part in this cash for clunkers program?

What's been your view of this so far?

mark123
08-01-2009, 05:49 PM
My old car just went up in value. :p

Actually, I heard it was already running out of money and they are shutting the program down. Did I hear that correctly?

It's a terrible plan. Instead of using the cars for the needy or for charities they are crusing them and sending them to our chinese enemies so that they can make more junk for us to consume. Our government has been terrible at everything its ever done in my lifetime.

Charity should be left to the church because the church does it better. Business should be left to the open market because the open market does it better.

kdexpd
08-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Just heard this on the news tonight. This is something to think about!
They said that the funding will only last for a short time and that some dealers are having trouble getting the online paperwork completed quickly because of a glitch with the governments website. They said that some of the deals that were made may not make it into the system in time for the consumer to be eligible. Now here's the good part: The are having the consumer sign a contract stating that if the paperwork isn't received in time for the money to be rewarded, the deal is null and void, and the consumer has to return the vehicle. Now what I wanna know is how the heck is that gonna work? By the time you get the notification that the contract is no good (in the worst case scenario), and your trade in has already been hauled off to be junked, and you have to return the car you purchased, what the hell are you supposed to do now? You'll be without a car and in worse shape than you were in the first place!! I don't know about you, but I LOVE my gas hog and I wouldn't trade it in for some little go cart! I get 11 mpg in town and 18 mpg on the highway, fully loaded, pulling a trailer or not, and it's a 1/2ton Dodge 4x4 with a HEMI. Ya gas prices stink, but I'll gladly pay em' before I'll trade in on something more "fuel efficient" just to please the tree huggers!
Ok, now I'm done with my rant...

majoe7
08-02-2009, 10:28 AM
I took advantage of this program yesterday. Obama stated that there was enough money to cover everyone who purchased a new car by this Sunday. Now the Govít has passed legistration to appropriate 2 billion more into this program. It has stimulated our car industry just like it helped Belgium. Some dealers are up 40 Ė 60 % over the past 3 months worth of sales just in 5 days of this program.
My situation is that my son bought a 1996 Ford Explorer 2 years ago with 120 k miles on it and paid 3k for it. It was in and still is in pristine condition to this day. It now has 133k miles on it and it is not a good gas car being a V-8. A while back he tried to trade it in to a dealer and they offered him 1500 for his car till his mother and he just walked away. Then the salesman says okay 2k for your car. He wasnít expecting to get what he paid for his car 2 years ago but the car dealers were hurting. Nobody heard of this program as of yet, it was working in Govít behind closed doors. Now we went to a local dealer and purchased a new car. They gave him $4500 CARS rebate and Mazda had a new car rebate worth $2500, total rebate so far 7k. I understand completely a foreign car, foreign money, but that is the car he wanted and was happy with plus he can afford it. It produced income to the local dealer who has money for his overhead to stay in business.
Have any of you purchased something you really didnít want just o save a buck and regretted it all the time? The car was 17900 and after all was said and done, he financed 10k with a car payment just over 200 a month. He does work and can afford this payment. This opportunity will not come around for him nor will he get that much for his car. Make sense right. Too good of a deal to pass up, who wouldnít.

He is a senior in H.S. and will be going onto college next year. He is working part time during his high school days and maintaining a 3.79 GPA while taking duel enrollment college courses. He will have ĺ of his associate degree before he leaves H.S.
This will give us peace of mind knowing he will have to travel with his car during breaks in school. It also gives him a little responsibility in becoming a man in this world.

I know you will say that this is a waste of money and it will do no good to help this economy but so far it has helped. The Govít offers so many program from, social security, medicad/medicare, child health care, free lunches, assistance during catastrophic disasters ect. How will ďwe the peopleĒ come up with the money, the Govít will find a way.
RIGHT? We pay a lot of taxes year round and maybe when we get to that Golden age their might not be any programs left. You will have to pay for everything by yourself.

The elected officials in Washington get a lifetime pension and health care till they die. No change there for them during these hard times.

IMO
John

lawncrafter56
08-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Perhaps I'm alone in thinking that this give away might have some of the same end results as the housing market meltdown when all those that couldn't afford to own a new home at low interest rates but were allowed with with fuzzy credit. another Dem givewaway that that busted the balls of the future middle class bread n butter earner for years to come.

Who would buy the used vehicle if down the road the owner couldn't even pay for an oil change. I have heard of incentives in excess of 6000.00 Meanwhile swstout's debt clock continues to spin at an ever frightening pace.

mark123
08-02-2009, 07:40 PM
Perhaps I'm alone in thinking that this give away might have some of the same end results as the housing market meltdown when all those that couldn't afford to own a new home at low interest rates but were allowed with with fuzzy credit. another Dem givewaway that that busted the balls of the future middle class bread n butter earner for years to come.

Who would buy the used vehicle if down the road the owner couldn't even pay for an oil change. I have heard of incentives in excess of 6000.00 Meanwhile swstout's debt clock continues to spin at an ever frightening pace.

You're not alone. This is a terrible, terrible idea that can only cause more debt, more problems and more tears. There will be a little break of sunshine where everyone will think that everything is all bluebirds and unicorns and then the hammer's gonna fall.

lawncrafter56
08-02-2009, 07:48 PM
I'm with you mark. Here in Iowa we have been sheltered from the worst of this financial storm due to alternative fuels. Even with lawn mowers on every corner I am considering expanding with some borrowed money but am leary of just that same hammer to drop here that you mention.

majoe7
08-02-2009, 10:13 PM
I think that everyone has too much fear in this world. Most people blame the government for there problems. Most problems are created by ones self. If you want it - get it, work hard for it, save for it, don't go into debt, don't spend what you don't have and live with in your means. If someone is in debt, declares bankruptcy or can't pay there house, car or credit bills, it is no ones fault but your own, but they seek help to free them from this burden. You all know what you can afford and not afford. America is the land of the free and home of the brave. With our rights and constitution, we all live in one of the freest nations in the world. When the Iranian people tried to rid their country of a socialst dictator Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, he still won the votes, but they said it was fraud. The people revolted and over 2 million people protested in the city in one day. They made there voices heard world wide. Did it change the leader, no, he blamed us, but the world heard what they were saying.
If you continue to blame "Big Brother" then do something about it. Protest, stage rallies, hold town meetings, actually go to the Govít meeting and speak up. BE A VOICE and stand up for what you believe in. It's your right to change who is in charge of the laws that are written during the session. Get involved.
Credit was easy, yes; too many people received loans they couldn't afford. Got in over there heads, but you know what? The people who filled out the credit application may have lied or fabricated the truth; maybe they were told what to put down. They all knew what they could afford. The people who suddenly lost there jobs, factories that closed or reduction in staff are the ones that suffered. If you don't have some sort of nest egg set aside, stocks, bonds, savings or real assets that have real value, then you are starting out on the wrong foot to begin with. Encourage your children to start this early in there life so they have something later.
My father was born at the start of the Great Depression, Orphaned, went to many foster care homes and then at the ripe old age of 18 went into the Army. He did 2 tours of the Korean War, led his combat to safety and saved lives daily. He received Prisoner of War Medal and the Purple Heart with Oak Leaf Cluster. He was captured the second time around. Held prisoner of war for 2 1/2 years, tortured and was given his daily rations. One bowl of mush (Soup), rice, bread and water once a day. He survived. He wasnít told to do this he joined to help his county. Win a war. This war should have never happened and we should have never got involved, the experts say later. He married my Mom, they had 6 children and we all have a good life. You want to know why? I'll tell you. My Dad always taught us the value of a dollar and to spend it wisely. Respect your elders and others. Never give up and always speak your voice. My Dad was a great leader in our city and led many politicians in the right direction. He spoke on many issues he believed in and when there was time for a change in government he was the voice. Most would listen to him and his words because they were truthful, accurate and factual. He never spoke poorly of any one. If you made a promise to the people he made sure that you kept it. My Mom and Dad are deceased now and everyday I thank the Lord in being blessed to have two wonderful parents like them.
I learned a lot from him and the apple didn't fall far from the tree for my brothers and sister.
We have a voice and use it to the good of the people and not just for my self. This country rebounded through many difficult time and we are still a Great Nation. Yes I agree that some things need to change but it all starts with ME. Obamas health care, wrong direction. Infrastructure needs to happen, roads and bridges replaced and jobs that are created with an honest pay to give some one the opportunity to survive in the crazy world. Increase the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, an insult. Give people real jobs with an honest pay.
I can go on a debate this and I am sure there will be some critics but I have one thing. A voice, a freedom from which many people who I admire and respect fought for or spoke up for so we all can a have a great county and life to live in.

Sincerely

John

mark123
08-02-2009, 10:47 PM
Here's a nice historical cartoon from 1934 that I thought was appropriate:
http://imaginekitty.com/external/pictures/politicalcartoon1934e.jpg

majoe7
08-02-2009, 11:01 PM
See even in 1934 the Cartoonist Orr had a voice or a place to express his freedom and let the Chicago area or Nation see his message during the height of the worst time in our country. Some 75 years later, we have the same issues then and now and still are a Great Nation.

mark123
08-02-2009, 11:05 PM
See even in 1934 the Cartoonist Orr had a voice or a place to express his freedom and let the Chicago area or Nation see his message during the height of the worst time in our country. Some 75 years later, we have the same issues then and now and still are a Great Nation.
If only we would have learned from the mistakes of the past and the mistakes of other countries. We didn't have these same issues 25 years ago. I'd rather see us on an upswing than on a purposely generated down turn.

I'm just saying why go through it again if we already know this isn't going to work. It's been proven by history over and over again.

majoe7
08-02-2009, 11:15 PM
This is from a blog that I was reading and made me think about the voice of Orr and Dsawy

dsawy Says:
"Yes, well, what is more interesting is what the cartoon doesn’t point out:

The financial/banking sector of the US did not fully recover and resume proper functioning from the melt-down of the 30’s until *after* WWII. I’d rather like the financial sector to be repaired a tad more quickly than 10 to 12 years hence, thank you very much.

Of course, what fans and proponents of FDR never seem to highlight is how FDR gold clause re-pegged the US dollar at $35/oz, up from a bit over $20/oz, devaluing the dollar by two-thirds or thereabouts.

So is that what you proponents of FDR are advocating here? Devaluation of the US dollar by two thirds? Because I’m sure that some folks in China would be interested in talking about that. We could get away with that tactic in the 1930’s, because we weren’t a debtor nation, beholden to debt owners in other countries.

Today, there are other countries who aren’t going to allow us to devalue the US dollar so radically as FDR did. So that option is effectively off the table.

What so many proponents of FDR also blithely ignore is that there are two ways to deal with the resulting over-capacity of debt-financed over-expansion in the economy: stimulate demand, and destroy supply. FDR did both. All these pink-faced urbanites today who sing the praises of FDR seem to forget (because most of these urban liberals today have never seen where their food comes from) is that FDR and the AAA destroyed supply - by plowing in already planted crops, taking land out of production, buying and shooting a whole bunch of pigs and sows. Subsequent to the AAA being ruled unconstitutional, FDR then created the genesis of US ag programs for the next 60 years, paying farmers to not farm.

What we have today is excess capacity brought on by an over-expansion beyond the ability of organic growth to support the existence of this capacity. This is true in autos, housing, services, etc. Excess capacity that was created with unsustainable debt now has to be wrung out of the system. We can either allow the market to run this capacity out of business, increase demand or destroy supply. FDR did all three. Liberals like to remember only the programs they view through rose-colored glasses - the ones where FDR put people on the government payroll. They like to gloss over the radical devaluation of the US dollar, the AAA and the resulting 60 years of “Moscow on the Mississippi” in the US ag sector.

Today, the equivalent would be: a) let’s burn down a whole lot of houses, and b) pay contractors to not build anything. We can put aside the radical devaluation of the dollar as untenable in our import-based, debtor nation situation."

I thought this was well spoken and on point. It is about the change in the way we think and speak out.

John

mark123
08-02-2009, 11:21 PM
Yes, FDR caused the depression to last far longer than it should have. I don't want to see that happen today by doing the same things. Let the big banks and insurance companies fail if they are going to fail. Don't put them on life support. Then recovery would have already started.

Let the auto makers fail if they can't keep up with the foreign competitors. Then they go bankrupt and lose the dead weight and restructure and start again with a better plan and better cars.

Recovery is automatic in a free market as long as the government keeps their claws out of it. The government is just awful at business because they don't have to be good at it. Businesses have to be good at business or they fail.