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CHEESE2009
05-26-2009, 07:15 PM
Would it be a good idea to remove the blade that cuts the trimmer string when it comes out too long?

What happens once it's removed? Will it spin all over the place if it's even a few cm out more than it's supposed to?

I just want to trim more area, gave this a thought. Anyone ever consider this, or try it?

rawssrob
05-26-2009, 08:00 PM
I seen a guy in my area doing that but he had the head that you plug the wire into. I have the same type of head on my trimmers and was wanting to try it myself. I just wonder if too much more would bog down the motor.

CheapNEasy
05-26-2009, 09:30 PM
I would not recommend doing this, it could be potentially harmful to other and your own safety. The blade is there to keep the line from hitting the guard, if the guard is removed it could let out to far and hit you or the operator of the unit.

You can get Quick insert heads that take pre-cut line that make it much easier to get the correct length, they usually take thicker lines and last longer.

These heads cost around $20 and I have never had a problem with them, I use .155 line in mine and it last much much longer than other lines.

As for trimming a bigger radius, I would look into another unit before trying this route. I myself have a 22'' String Trimmer *Like a push mower/weed eater hybrid.

Just my thoughts

StartALawnCareBusiness
05-26-2009, 09:46 PM
I definitely agree with CheapNEasy that you should not remove or alter the line limiter.

Mfgs optimize trimmer line length in correlation with the engine's ability to spin the bump head. If you allow line to protrude longer than where the blade is set, your RPMs will decrease giving you a less effective cut.

In addition to being dangerous, altering the line limiter blade or its location reduces trimmer line efficiency.

Keith

SuperiorPower
05-27-2009, 01:30 AM
The real reasons for the debri guard and the blade are several:

1) RPM: The guard holds the trimmer string cutting blade which keeps the string at a standard length. Too much string length increases the drag on the engine, like Keith said.

What happens is it takes considerably more Horse Power to keep a longer string spinning at the same speed. If you pay attention while you are trimming, when the string on your trimmer gets short, the engine runs faster. Then you extend it, and the engine RPMs go back down to the speed where it was intended to operate. Especially on smaller and lower quality trimmers using the proper length trimmer string serves as a governor of sorts, preventing your trimmer engine from running too fast all the time and potentially overheating and damaging the engine. Now keep in mind the engine is not likely to overheat from just normal use as long as you don't trim EXTENDED periods of time with the engine "wrapped" at full RPM under no load.

2) Stress: Longer string also places considerable extra torque on the engine and drive system. I recall attending an update seminar for a popular higher end trimmer a number of years ago (over 10 years ago). As they were discussing problems and recalls they mentioned that they had a problem with a certain trimmer's shaft breaking. Now keep in mind, this is a straight shaft higher end trimmer with a solid machined steel shaft and with a full life time warranty on the shaft. They only had problems with one particular customer's trimmer.

After some research they found the customer had removed the guard to permit him to run a longer string. He was running a LONG string which in turn placed considerably more stress on the shaft which after continuous hours of operation caused the shaft to fatigue and break or the splines shear off. The manufacturer stated they did not mind the operator having removed the guard but for this customer the shaft was no longer considered under warranty since the customer had modified the product. So keep this in mind if you choose to run a long string.

3) Personal Protection: There is little danger associated with not operating the trimmer with the guard attached, however, there is a slight danger. The primary protective functions of the guard are,
a) Protect the operator from flying dangerous debri should your measly powered trimmer (most trimmers are less than 2 HP but operate at high RPMs) decide to grab items like rocks and sticks and through them at you. However, this is not that great of a concern when you consider that if it were a great concern the guard would likely be all the way around the front and sides of the string as well.
b) Protect the operator from excessive flying grass and weeds.
c) Another purpose for the guard is to keep the trimmer string at a length the manufacturer has deemed to be the maximum reasonable or suggested length for this trimmer. This is not to say that your trimmer is not capable of operating successfully or acceptibly with a string 2"-6" longer, but it is not recommended to do so.


If you decide you want to run a longer string you would need to completely remove the guard. The reason is if you only removed the blade the string would get too long and would get wrapped up in the guard, rendering the trimmer almost completely useless. This is because as the string wraps around the guard it increases the resistance on the engine far beyond what several extra inches of free flying string would. This in turn causes the engine to lose its power and RPMs.

Regarding other options to trim a wider path, CheapNEasy suggested a walk behind or "push" style trimmer. This would likely take considerably longer to trim around a house, flower bed, etc, than a hand held. The walk behind would definitely not be as versatile if you needed to reach around or behind an object. However, if you are wanting to trim a large area or have an area where you can walk along side a building or a fenceline with a walk behind trimmer this may be very effective. Places where I have seen the walk behind (like the DR trimmer) being used is where the terrain is too rough for a regular push mower, the grass or weeds are too tall for a regular mower, or extended distances along fencelines.

The problem with using a trimmer head with the precut lengths of string is that you will not be getting a "bigger" cut area. However, like was said, the string is much heavier normally, or at least these aftermarket heads will normally accept heavier string.

Little's
05-27-2009, 02:13 AM
I removed mine about a year ago and have removed it on the newest trimmer I got. Your line will last 4 times as long since it isnt getting cut off every time the head feeds. You can pick up about 4 inches of cut without any loss of rpm/ power etc. I will remove it on any new trimmer I get from now on. The performance has outweighed any downsides for me.

There may be some protective issues (your legs) when you do this, so be careful. But I have yet to hurt myself.

CHEESE2009
05-27-2009, 10:40 AM
Thanks Eli!

Just read your post & pretty much cleared up all my concerns.

I know who to bug for these sort of things now, haha!

SuperiorPower
05-27-2009, 01:40 PM
Thanks Eli!

Just read your post & pretty much cleared up all my concerns.

I know who to bug for these sort of things now, haha!

You are always welcome!! You know I do my best to provide accurate, honest, and detailed info! Plus I try to make sure I look out for y'all safety in the mean time!

musician/lawnman
05-28-2009, 07:37 AM
I have removed the gaurds entirely on all 3 trimmmers. Saves line, yes it's a little harder on machines if you let the line get too long, but it also makes them lighter & ther reality is that gaurd isn't big enough to save you from much flying debris. out of 360 degrees it covers what? maybe 20? Gank it off & toss it! JMO

SuperiorPower
05-28-2009, 11:41 PM
reality is that gaurd isn't big enough to save you from much flying debris. out of 360 degrees it covers what? maybe 20? Gank it off & toss it! JMO

Indeed!! That is exactly true. Like I said (under point 3.a), if it was truly intended to protect it would be around the front and sides as well. And it takes about 3.2 seconds (or less!) of using a trimmer to see that it really does not protect you from anything. Matter of fact, it really protects your legs and feet from nothing. Go trim for 5-10 minutes and see how much grass you get all over your shoes and lower legs. As far as protection goes, I suspect that it is there about as much as anything to be a "insurance" policy (liability control).

CheapNEasy
05-29-2009, 12:44 AM
See what you guys are failing to see is that the guard isnt actually there to protect you from the debris.... It is mearly there to protect you from the line going out to far and tearing your legs and feet up....

Go ahead try it out, remove the guard... bump the line out a couple feet and see how it feels on your ankles and such.

This is the mentality that had McDonalds and other establishments put "Caution COFFEE may be HOT" on the cups.... "Stupid is as stupid does" sure you could just "not bump it out that far" but what happens when the bump mechinism fails and it feeds all the line out....

Just a little food for thought.

Little's
05-29-2009, 01:55 AM
See what you guys are failing to see is that the guard isnt actually there to protect you from the debris.... It is mearly there to protect you from the line going out to far and tearing your legs and feet up....

Go ahead try it out, remove the guard... bump the line out a couple feet and see how it feels on your ankles and such.


Just a little food for thought.

Well what happens when it goes out more than 8 or 10 inches, it twists up around the head. The air drag wont allow the line to stay straight out while it is spinning, so in essence, nothing happens :)

SuperiorPower
05-29-2009, 02:50 AM
See what you guys are failing to see is that the guard isnt actually there to protect you from the debris.... It is mearly there to protect you from the line going out to far and tearing your legs and feet up....

Go ahead try it out, remove the guard... bump the line out a couple feet and see how it feels on your ankles and such.

This is the mentality that had McDonalds and other establishments put "Caution COFFEE may be HOT" on the cups.... "Stupid is as stupid does" sure you could just "not bump it out that far" but what happens when the bump mechinism fails and it feeds all the line out....

Just a little food for thought.

Or you could go back and read my post to see what it REALLY is for. I have my doubts that any of the readers here on this board had any intentions of running a line long enough to reach their legs.

If you extended the line out far enough to reach your legs (under normal operating conditions) one of 2 things would happen: a) On the smaller units the engine would physically not be able to power the 24"+ of line on each side (you said a couple of feet which I believe amounts to at least 24" to 36"!) and would only be long enough then to reach your legs if you are usinga curve shaft trimmer or b) you have a higher power unit (the biggest that are available) that may be capable of swinging that length of string and now you are running a 51" mower. And I have my doubts that even the biggest trimmer would be able to "operate" with 24" of string on each side, making it, at minimum, a 51" mower (24 + 24 + at least a 3" trimmer head = 51"). My figures of 51" are just if you have ONLY 24" of string on each side. At least most of the straight shaft trimmers I have seen or that I suppose our good friends and co-gophers would be using would still have room to spare with 24" of line on each side. Now I have NO INTENTIONS of proving you are wrong by being STUPID enough to actually try running a 24" line on each side of my trimmer head. I would also STRONGLY recommend our co-gophers do not try it either for the reasons mentioned in my original post (sections "a" and "b").
************************************************-

CheapNEasy, do you ever think about what you post??? If I did not know better I would almost believe that you are either a) purposefully providing incorrect information or b) are intentionally attempting to contradicting my posts and just happen to be providing incorrect information. For example, look above.

Or go look at the discussion where you provided wrong information on the settings for a Echo blower. The first time you provided information for the wrong BRAND (how in the heck??? Stihl vs Echo?!?!?!?!?!?) and the second time you posted a link to the owners manual. Now I know I am not a rocket scientists but let me tell you, I know the manufacturer is NOT going to provide raw setting data to the end users in this EPA restricted day and age. Sure, they may provide them with data regarding the settings of the screws WITH the limiter caps ON, but not with the limiter caps OFF. Seldom, and let me repeat, SELDOM (at least in my experience), can enough adjustment be obtained with the limiter caps on to actually affect the operation of the machine. Let me again reiterate as I did in that post, Adjusting the carburetor is not something I would recommend doing unless you have proper training Let me add to that, I do not recommend removing the limiter caps or making any adjustments unless you have the proper training. By "proper training" I mean that you are a properly trained small engine technician. And by "properly trained small engine technician" I do not mean that you graduated from some certificate mill or that you graduated some class, where ever it may have been, where they taught basic small engine operation and principles. THIS is the information I told you by Private Message that I was going to let you figure out on your own.

Now that we see this, would you like for me to tell the rest of the world the rest of the contents of your Private Messages to me? Like this sly remark about me and my wife (I would like to know who she is since I am not married and never been. But knowing who my future wife is goignto be would be nice info to have!) I will not sit here a quote battle you, Ill let you go back to your wife and continue to undermine her as I do not have or need to argue with you as it seems you thrive on so much. I will leave the grammar issues/typos alone since I am sure I made a few grammer mistakes in this post myself.

Or like the part about leaving because of disgracing yourself and then coming back under a new name?

Or would you like to just play nice? Trust me, I am not here to play dirty, but you started it. I am sure this part of this post will be deleted by morning, but I hope you will at least get a chance to read it and see the error of your ways.

As you said, "Just a little food for thought."
****************************************

Breeze, sorry for sidetracking this thread. Let's get back to the business at hand in this thread.

SuperiorPower
05-29-2009, 02:59 AM
Well what happens when it goes out more than 8 or 10 inches, it twists up around the head. The air drag wont allow the line to stay straight out while it is spinning, so in essence, nothing happens :)

He lives in his own little world. Or in his words, folks like you and me "are failing to see". But while you and I "are failing to see" some things, in our imperfect world we see things that differs slightly from his sight picture.

Oh, sorry, I am off track again. Let me get back to trimmer thoughts..........

For those who remove the guard, I am curious how far you normally allow the string to come out? Just what ever happens?

And I can definitely see your point of not wasting as much string. Heck, it seems who ever designed the heads never used a trimmer. The line gets too short, you bump, and now the line is too long so the blade has to cut 2" off..... There goes some more profit down the drain....

CheapNEasy
05-29-2009, 08:59 AM
what happens when the bump mechinism fails and it feeds all the line out....

Not everyone here will be running a little cheap trimmer, and the line will not always twist around the head. I run .155 line.

I assure you it will not twist around the head and is more than capable of running 20" or more at a high speed enough to be effective and or destructive.

Seeing as I have equipment that will do so, and I do not know the models the other 200+ viewers or so have that have seen this post. I would not recomend taking the guard off.

CheapNEasy
05-29-2009, 09:02 AM
[QUOTE=SuperiorPower;52232]
For those who remove the guard, I am curious how far you normally allow the string to come out? Just what ever happens? QUOTE]

Lets says the bumb system fails.... and feeds all the line. Then the trimmer is actually able to keep up with the line that has been feed. Commercial grade equipment *like my stihls* will be able to keep up with a significant load.... What happens then?

musician/lawnman
05-29-2009, 06:50 PM
Wow,
I haven't been on in a couple days & this conversation has gotten retarded.
I don't give a damn, if it's the biggest commercial trimmer out there, unless your carrying around 5hp on that thing it's going to bogg out to near uselessness at that kind of length. I run echos, A couple of 210's & a 260. I run 1.05 gatorline (with the reinforced core).

One, I have never had a head malfunction & just let line run out willy nilly.
Two, The engine IS GOING TO BOGG OUT & it would be too slow to do much damage to a weed no less your boots. If these trimmers could do that I wouldn't bother with $7,000 mowers. I'd just have cheap laborers running a bunch of 36" line trimmers!

I removed the gaurds & one the larger engine trimmers at times I'd say I've had 10-12" of line out (instead of the stock set up that limits you to 7" or so)& the engine is working hard at that. Any longer & your bound to just burn out a clutch or snap a shaft.

Now I am trying to visualize some dipsh!t with a 5hp briggs on a trimmer with about 3' of line out. First he trims off his feet! Then ankles, Then calfs... etc.
Funny crap....

SuperiorPower
05-29-2009, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=SuperiorPower;52232]
For those who remove the guard, I am curious how far you normally allow the string to come out? Just what ever happens? QUOTE]

Lets says the bumb system fails.... and feeds all the line. Then the trimmer is actually able to keep up with the line that has been feed. Commercial grade equipment *like my stihls* will be able to keep up with a significant load.... What happens then?

Not quite sure what this means or how this answers my question. But from your previous post I have to ask you a question, do you mean to tell me that you run your trimmer with 40"+ of string? I mean what the heck do you need a mower for if you have a 40" trimmer? Heck, mount some wheels on it and go mow...... This would use a lot less gas and.... Oh, that's right, it would wear out your trimmer real quick and void your warranty.....

Just curious, what size trimmer are you using? And just because your engine is able to keep up with the load, what about the rest of the system? Refer to section #2 in my first post. For example, I promise you that you are putting an unbelievable load on your clutch. That clutch is NOT designed to pull 40" of string. This will cause extra heat which breaks down the clutch material and causes premature clutch and bearing failure, both caused by unnecessary and unprecedented heat. Plus, it can cause premature shaft failure and cause your engine to get hotter than it was designed for, significantly reducing your engine life.

I still contend it is not wise to take the guard off if you intend to run a long string, however, it really does not provide much cover or protection. So if you keep the string a length similar to what it would be with the guard on, I see no problem with it except I suspect most manufacturers would void the warranty in a heartbeat based on this.

And BTW, did you just switch positions on this matter? You said don't do it and then you are advocating it by telling us that your Stihls can handle it (unless I misunderstood your post)........

And just to clarify, I am not a Stihl fan but I am also not a Stihl hater. They make some great products but just not my personal choice. And I fully understand the difference between a Commercial VS Consumer product. That is something I have been preaching here on this forum since I joined.

Little's
05-29-2009, 07:30 PM
Now I am trying to visualize some dipsh!t with a 5hp briggs on a trimmer with about 3' of line out. First he trims off his feet! Then ankles, Then calfs... etc.
Funny crap....

Haha, leave it to Chuck to put a positive spin on the whole thread! lololol

justin_time
05-29-2009, 08:21 PM
Regarding other options to trim a wider path, CheapNEasy suggested a walk behind or "push" style trimmer. This would likely take considerably longer to trim around a house, flower bed, etc, than a hand held. The walk behind would definitely not be as versatile if you needed to reach around or behind an object. However, if you are wanting to trim a large area or have an area where you can walk along side a building or a fenceline with a walk behind trimmer this may be very effective. Places where I have seen the walk behind (like the DR trimmer) being used is where the terrain is too rough for a regular push mower, the grass or weeds are too tall for a regular mower, or extended distances along fencelines.


This is what I got, i use mostly this machine when I get a customer with tall grass. Doesn't go a great job but cuts it down so I can cut it up again

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll280/jitys/trim_n_mow_lg.jpg

CheapNEasy
05-29-2009, 09:28 PM
"And BTW, did you just switch positions on this matter? You said don't do it and then you are advocating it by telling us that your Stihls can handle it (unless I misunderstood your post)........"

I have never taken the guard off, dont plan too. I can mow close enough to not need to trim that much of an area. I dont like to use the trimmer often, leaves the grass ripped and it tends to yellow and brown the tips.

But seeing as I have cleared brush with these trimmers up to an inch thick with a single swipe I figure they can keep up with a long line load.

I dont really care what you guys do, but stranger things have happened and just looking out for your safety, the bump could malfunction, highly unlikely. But nonetheless it could happen, do what you do, just my personal opinion.

Id rather mow a little closer and not worry about trimming to much area and the long debris left behind to rake up....

SuperiorPower
05-29-2009, 11:07 PM
Not everyone here will be running a little cheap trimmer, and the line will not always twist around the head. I run .155 line.

I assure you it will not twist around the head and is more than capable of running 20" or more at a high speed enough to be effective and or destructive.

Seeing as I have equipment that will do so, and I do not know the models the other 200+ viewers or so have that have seen this post. I would not recomend taking the guard off.

I wonder how he knows? He has never taken the guard off (he claims. See below).

I have never taken the guard off, dont plan too.

But he knows trimmers can handle 20" or more of string. Hmmmm. Anyone else wondering here?

But seeing as I have cleared brush with these trimmers up to an inch thick with a single swipe I figure they can keep up with a long line load.

Oh. I see, Earlier you assured us that a trimmer can handle 20" or more of string. Now you have been reduced to figuring.

the bump could malfunction, highly unlikely. But nonetheless it could happen, do what you do, just my personal opinion.

Yep it could. BTW, have you seen flying elephants recently? I understand they are very rare......

Lets says the bumb system fails.... and feeds all the line. Then the trimmer is actually able to keep up with the line that has been feed. Commercial grade equipment *like my stihls* will be able to keep up with a significant load.... What happens then?

Again, I must ask, How do you know? But I digress.....

Little's
05-29-2009, 11:54 PM
This whole thing is silly. Look, I dont care what kind of machine you are using, trimmer line is too light, and too flexible, and too wind resistant to NOT wrap arround the head.

How do I know?, because when my line gets too long, more than 12 inches, the line cant keep up with the head and wraps around itself. My head takes any size line I can put in it, and I use up to .140 and sometimes as small as .80 and does not make a difference. I use a Echo SRM-261T very powerful.

If you allow your line to feed out to 36" and do not flip the switch to turn it off, then you are too dim witted to be using one anyway.
Just my .02

SuperiorPower
05-30-2009, 12:42 AM
Fellow Gophers,

I apologize for side tracking this thread but I was appalled at the thought that a trimmer would be capable of operating with more than a reasonable length of string. I have operated too many where the string length greatly affected the engine RPMs. Granted these trimmers typically were not high end commercial units or even good quality, large displacement consumer units. However, just the same, long string does affect the engines RPMs.

But let's get back to the business that we do so well here on Gopherforum.com. Here is a real question I would like to see how you guys do things. Do you guys use the factory heads or do you replace them with some other head?

If you replace it, what kind of head do you install?


Like CheapNEasy said, I HATE trimming. I suppose that is why I don't trim every time I mow my yard!!! You know this year I have been so busy fixing other peoples mowers I have hardly been able to find the time to fix one for myself or keep my yard mowed.:mad:

Any volunteers? :eek:

Steve W
05-30-2009, 12:56 AM
If you allow your line to feed out to 36" and do not flip the switch to turn it off, then you are too dim witted to be using one anyway.
Just my .02
Here is my .02 cent.
I agree, and who in the hell wants to TRIM with 36" of string. And yes I have a trimer with the guard off and and I know for a fact that with the guard off you are asking for sand grass weeds water sticks rocks and what ever else
to hit you. I have two of the same kind of trimers put one does not have the guard and the other does. The one without HAS let too much sting out before and HAS wraped around the head ans HAS bogged down the lil engine.
I agree with SuperiorPower and his thoughts of knowledge and I also got a good laugh from what chuck said about the 5hp briggs on a stick. HAHAHA!
SO thats my .02 cents and I Dont care who dont like it. GOOD DAY! :D

CheapNEasy
05-30-2009, 12:58 AM
I myself use the quick insert heads.

They accept a thicker line, last much longer, almost forever if you rarley tag debris, walls ect....

I buy the line in bulk spools, precut them to desired length, carry an extra two precuts in my pocket just incase the line were to get too low, and takes just about 10 seconds to let the trimmer stop, and pop the two fresh ones in and continue on my way.

You can pick these heads up for about $20. Well worth the price.

On another note.... Have you guys tried out the Gator Edger baldes? I love these things! I get them at $1.75 each, leaves just under half an inch edge groove.... looks great, have had many many compliments on the job it does, even had the DIYer's ask me to edge over their lawns because the blades I use make it some much nicer!

Cant get them to cave and pay for full service just yet, but atleast I get something off of them for edging and blowing off, seeing as I am already there :)

Steve W
05-30-2009, 08:34 PM
Hey Yall! Got my friend Jim over tonite, (Jim Beam) So pull up a chair and Talk for awhile.

CHEESE2009
05-30-2009, 11:28 PM
Hey Yall! Got my friend Jim over tonite, (Jim Beam) So pull up a chair and Talk for awhile.

my buddy Jack Daniels & his sister Tequilla aren't getting along tonight... bad mix...