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View Full Version : Guys, you need to get into this!


swstout
05-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Hey everyone,

You really need to get into Natural Lawn Care. I did a job this morning where I fertilized, enriched the soil, and aerated the lawn using the Nature'S Magic products (Aerafy, Mature's Magic, and Dethatcher). My material costs were under $6.00 and I payed my employee $30.00.
Including travel he spent 2 hours. I bid the job at $408.00 ($24.00 per 1,000 sq. ft.). After material and labor I grossed $337.00. or $118.50 per hour!

I have 5 like jobs for tomorrow. Smaller lots but the same $24.00 per K price. And I get 50% with order and balance on completion. Jobs I did last week got me 4 of tomorrows jobs. The results are that striking and the neighbors are actually pre-sold.

I have only been using these products a few weeks and I am adding a service truck next week just for spraying!

It's time for you to get on the band wagon!

Steve

swstout
05-21-2009, 08:55 PM
material costs were under $6.00 and I payed my employee $30.00.
Including travel he spent 2 hours. I bid the job at $408.00 ($24.00 per 1,000 sq. ft.). After material and labor I grossed $337.00. or $118.50 per hour!



My material costs were $102.00 and my labor was $30.00. $408 - $132.00 = $276.00 or $138.00 per hour.

Sorry for the math error, I'm very tired. 6am to 8pm not counting book work is a long day.

Steve

Steve W
05-21-2009, 09:06 PM
I was telling my better half about what yall have been saying about this spaying deal. I told her that I think the sketter spray would sell around here good. I dont think I could get what yall have been getting as of profit, due to the fact we have had so many factorys closeing around here in the past few years, a candy factory, tire factory closing down and now P&G is talking that they need help and are gonna cut back 300 jobs. But I still think it would go good around here. Can you give me a site to look at again about this stuff?
I sure got my thumb out for this band wagon.

Steve W

swstout
05-21-2009, 09:25 PM
I was telling my better half about what yall have been saying about this spaying deal. I told her that I think the sketter spray would sell around here good. I dont think I could get what yall have been getting as of profit, due to the fact we have had so many factorys closeing around here in the past few years, a candy factory, tire factory closing down and now P&G is talking that they need help and are gonna cut back 300 jobs. But I still think it would go good around here. Can you give me a site to look at again about this stuff?
I sure got my thumb out for this band wagon.

Steve W

http://www.natureslawn.com/
A lot of people have started mowing their own lawn because of the economy. Pther than commercial sites and foreclosures I only have 3 residential mowing jobs. However, these people don't have the equipment or resources gor lawn care. And, the all natural - chemical free montra is what's in.
I am starting a campaign for Country Clubs this weekend (we're supposed to get thundarstorms). Get in there and then give bonus cash to staff for referals.
There are always outdoor weddings in the summer. How about graduation parties? The possibilities are limited only by your imagination.
Steve

picframer
05-22-2009, 04:16 AM
Steve is correct, this product sells itself and the results are striking and the performance tested, we are getting a tremendous amount of word of mouth jobs, Steve and I charge the same rate per 1,000.

Currently I keep two full time and one part time person spraying, a couple of weeks ago we added a four month spray program which I believe is necessary to get the maximum results from this product.

It costs so little to get into and the profits are light years ahead of mowing and it's fairly easy work, requires some self education and make sure you do so before you start selling, we run into Organic Gardeners on a regular basis and they will quiz you.

The big thing I get is "Many national companies advertise Organic lawn care, what sets you aside" I personally love this question, Natures Magic is not Organic Based, it's 100% certified Organic.

Andy

musician/lawnman
05-22-2009, 06:44 AM
Do products like this fall under typical restrictions? Do they require specific licensing? Or not since they are organic?

swstout
05-22-2009, 07:45 AM
Do products like this fall under typical restrictions? Do they require specific licensing? Or not since they are organic?

Both the EPA and the FDA classify these products as food sources. There are no restrictions or specific licensing required. I post the MSDA (Material Safety Data Sheets) required by OSHA on my website and carry copies in all my vehicles. I have been checked!

I like Andy offer a sort of 4 spray plan. I offer a 15% discount for repeat sprayings. $34.00 per 1,000 sq. ft 1st application and $28.90 per K for subsiquent applications. I also give either Lowe's or WalMart Gift Certificates for purchasing referrals. 1=$10, 2= $20, 3=$30, 4=$50 and=$100.

Present customers are really going after the $100.00 card and the profit makes the "Gift" easy to give. And, I am checking to see if it could be used as an advertising deduction.

Steve

turfmaster
05-22-2009, 09:10 AM
Thanks for the info. I have been thinking of adding organic lawn care to my list
of services. I already have the FIMCO sprayers. There definitely is a market in my area for this. I am going to educate myself on this stuff.
Thanks Steve and Andy. :D

swstout
05-22-2009, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the info. I have been thinking of adding organic lawn care to my list
of services. I already have the FIMCO sprayers. There definitely is a market in my area for this. I am going to educate myself on this stuff.
Thanks Steve and Andy. :D

I learned a whole bunch of talking points by by searching Google got Organic Lawn Care. The info on the dangers of synthetic fertalizers and pesticides will scare current users, especially those with children and pets (both are close to the ground). Show the need for change and then the advantages.

Steve

CHEESE2009
05-22-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm in.

It sounds great, I should be doing this!

swstout
05-23-2009, 08:03 AM
I'm in.

It sounds great, I should be doing this!

It's in demand, easy, profitable, and an easy sell. Lawn mowing has dropped off due to the economy but lawn treatments are still ingreat demand. All natural, chemical free soil enhancements, insect control and fertalization are things the home owners are viewed as things beyond their abilities.

"Soil is the soul of the lawn"! A catch phrase I like to use. Customers like it!

Steve

musician/lawnman
05-23-2009, 03:27 PM
What kind of spraying equipment is need fo this Stout? Do I need a dedicated truck with a big tank? Back pack sprayer? maybe one mounted to a mower or quad?

swstout
05-23-2009, 03:50 PM
What kind of spraying equipment is need fo this Stout? Do I need a dedicated truck with a big tank? Back pack sprayer? maybe one mounted to a mower or quad?

I have baclpack sprayers but they are to much work and time consumming. I use a Fimco 25 gallon tow behind unit. http://www.fimcoindustries.com

It sprays an 80" swath towed behind my lawn tractor.

I can spray Mature's Magic, Dethatcher, and fertilizer all at the same time.

Steve

swstout
05-24-2009, 04:36 PM
Currently I keep two full time and one part time person spraying, a couple of weeks ago we added a four month spray program which I believe is necessary to get the maximum results from this product.

Andy

Hi Andy,

I received an email from a local Golf Course Re: Mosquito treatments. They want a quote by the acre.

How do you figure labor on such large jobs. I advertized price minus 15% for subsequent treatments. I.E. say $100.00 for the first and $85.00 for Monthly follow-up treatments. (the $100 figure is just for example and easy figuring)

Steve

picframer
05-24-2009, 08:15 PM
Hi Andy,

I received an email from a local Golf Course Re: Mosquito treatments. They want a quote by the acre.

How do you figure labor on such large jobs. I advertized price minus 15% for subsequent treatments. I.E. say $100.00 for the first and $85.00 for Monthly follow-up treatments. (the $100 figure is just for example and easy figuring)

Steve

We are still waiting on two golf courses here, one is to respond by tomorrow.

I quoted $200.00 an acre plus tax, cost is around $100.00 but I have to buy a 60 gallon sprayer if we get the contract. I didn't offer them a discount.

$100.00 is too low as that is your cost bud, this spray is desperate expensive, $495.00 will do 5 acres.

swstout
05-24-2009, 08:23 PM
$100.00 is too low as that is your cost bud, this spray is desperate expensive, $495.00 will do 5 acres.

The $100.00 was just an example. I could figure 15% off in my head with it. It wasn't a quote.

Thanks for the info.

Steve

tomustang
05-25-2009, 07:20 AM
A lot of people have started mowing their own lawn because of the economy.

That is where I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. if they aint doing it themselves they got someone doing it for them and it's more than a 5 years.

My market here is almost tapped, but I'm still trying

turfmaster
05-25-2009, 08:23 AM
That is where I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. if they aint doing it themselves they got someone doing it for them and it's more than a 5 years.

My market here is almost tapped, but I'm still trying

That is why you have to diversify. Offer services others don't.
It is true anybody can cut grass but not everybody will landscape, spray lawns,
power wash etc.

swstout
05-25-2009, 11:50 AM
That is why you have to diversify. Offer services others don't.
It is true anybody can cut grass but not everybody will landscape, spray lawns,
power wash etc.

I'm amazed at the response I am getting for Mosquito control and repelling. Retirement homes, childcare centers, wedding planners, golf courses; the market is wide open.

Get your spraying equipment and go for it!

turfmaster
05-25-2009, 12:20 PM
I'm amazed at the response I am getting for Mosquito control and repelling. Retirement homes, childcare centers, wedding planners, golf courses; the market is wide open.

Get your spraying equipment and go for it!

I am excited to get started.
There are only 5 organic lawn care company's within 2 counties in my area!
None of them use Nature's Magic and some of them don't even spray.
Turf

swstout
05-25-2009, 12:46 PM
I am excited to get started.
There are only 5 organic lawn care company's within 2 counties in my area!
None of them use Nature's Magic and some of them don't even spray.
Turf

Another product you spray is Nematodes.
<CITE>www.arbico-organics.com/nematodes (http://www.arbico-organics.com/nematodes)</CITE>
<CITE>Check them out also</CITE>
<CITE></CITE>
<CITE>Steve</CITE>

picframer
05-25-2009, 08:39 PM
That is where I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. if they aint doing it themselves they got someone doing it for them and it's more than a 5 years.

My market here is almost tapped, but I'm still trying

There are so many services one can offer the homeowner beyond lawn mowing and make a killing at it isn't funny. I started my research in September of last year, started buying equipment in January when things were slow as I knew I could get good pricing, I did a five year business plan, just for my own reference as I financed the company myself and launched it in April of this year.

I am on the revenue side almost at the end of year two and I am shocked, lawn mowing represents about 2 percent of our revenue.

I keep an eye on clients property, keep the staff well informed and listen to feedback, we talk about things clients want, some do not interest me, many do. If we hear a request for the same thing 3 or 4 times, I offer the service and see what happens, if it's positive I buy the equipment, it works every time.

We have two more offerings on hold as we can't keep up with the services we are offering now, the latest was pressure washing, bought a commercial unit last Friday, bought another Sunday and have to buy another tomorrow. I simply sent an email to our 137 clients we have done work for plus 2,300 woodworking clients and the demand is through the roof.

For some reason roto tilling is going nuts the past few days and they are very large jobs, I tilled 5 acres tonight for one client for $590.00, took me 2 1/2 hours, aside from the equipment I only used $2.90 worth of fuel.

Anyhow try other services, many do not cost much to get into. I was asked today by the Manager of Public works for the city if we were going to offer graffiti removal as they have a few weeks worth of work for someone as they can't find a provider....long story short, I have ordered the attachments for the sprayers to allow us to do this.

Good Luck, been another 15 hour day, I am dead tired.

Andy

swstout
05-25-2009, 09:49 PM
When Andy speaks, I listen! He has not steered me wrong yet. I don't just read his posts, I digest them! What I learned from him prompted me to take out this add in the Home Show section of out local paper due out tomorrow (normally comes out on Monday but today was a holliday)

Why we went green


Synthetic lawn chemicals i.e. herbicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers endanger human and animal health and damage the environment. Scientific studies have found numerous negative health consequences associated with the synthetic chemicals found in traditional lawn care products. A report by the National Academy of Sciences shows that the health of 1 in 7 people are negatively impacted in some form by lawn pesticides; numerous studies link lawn chemicals to cancers and other long-term diseases; several studies also link exposure to artificial lawn chemicals to an increased risk of cancer and other health problems in pets. Children are especially at risk for negative health consequences due to their size, physiological development and proximity to the ground. Studies from Yale University, Mt. Sinai Medical Center and several others point to children’s health risks associated with synthetic fertilizers and pesticides.

Synthetic pesticides and fertilizers destroy the naturally present beneficial organisms in a healthy lawn’s ecosystem making it biologically sterile. This destruction then transforms your lawn into an increasingly needy "junkie,"requiring more and more chemicals to sustain it. A green lawn does not mean a healthy lawn! In addition, up to 60 percent of synthetic nitrogen applied to lawns ends up contaminating ground water.

Even though going Green meant purchasing new equipment, costly employee training, enhanced application and mixing methods, and a companywide culture change, we went Green May 1st.

Our products actually build soil (Humus) over time. One gallon of our soil-conditioning product is the equivalent of seven tons of manure. Our products contain beneficial microbes, 30+ vitamins and nutrients, plant growth hormones, and are all 100% biodegradable. Our products help Nature help Nature. A healthy turf is weed free, disease free, utilizes water more efficiently, and increases home value with greater curb appeal.

We are extensively trained, licensed, insured, and ready to serve. We give free estimates and consultations to residential and commercial clients, offer active duty military family and senior citizen discounts.


Stout Services Lawn Care Plus
(843) 639-5229

Http://www.swstout.com (http://www.swstout.com/)
information@swstout.com (information@swstout.com)

The ad hasn't even come out yet but I have 3 calls from the paper's employees. If it was not for Andy I would not have taken the chance and spent the big bucks and taken the chance.

My excitement is growing by the hour. Tomorrow will tell. Forecast is for thundarstorms so I should be able to monitor it starting in the afternoon.

I did three tilling jobs last week on lots with more sand than grass and rolled, sprayed, and seeded them. Received 5 calls from my lawn signs left on them.

I hope soon to be at Andy's point; more work than I can handle. Added one more truch last week and planning to add another next week.

Follow Andy's lead and then become a leader yourself. The leader of lawn care in your area!

Steve
<!** took this line out so above would work **><!** Example of my marketing.

This is the ad I placed today for next Monday's Home Show Insert of our local paper.

Why we went green

Synthetic lawn chemicals i.e. herbicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers endanger human and animal health and damage the environment. Scientific studies have found numerous negative health consequences associated with the synthetic chemicals found in traditional lawn care products. A report by the National Academy of Sciences shows that the health of 1 in 7 people are negatively impacted in some form by lawn pesticides; numerous studies link lawn chemicals to cancers and other long-term diseases; several studies also link exposure to artificial lawn chemicals to an increased risk of cancer and other health problems in pets. Children are especially at risk for negative health consequences due to their size, physiological development and proximity to the ground. Studies from Yale University, Mt. Sinai Medical Center and several others point to children’s health risks associated with synthetic fertilizers and pesticides.

Synthetic pesticides and fertilizers destroy the naturally present beneficial organisms in a healthy lawn’s ecosystem making it biologically sterile. This destruction then transforms your lawn into an increasingly needy &quot;junkie,&quot;requiring more and more chemicals to sustain it. A green lawn does not mean a healthy lawn! In addition, up to 60 percent of synthetic nitrogen applied to lawns ends up contaminating ground water.

Even though going Green meant purchasing new equipment, costly employee training, enhanced application and mixing methods, and a companywide culture change, we went Green May 1st.

Our products actually build soil (Humus) over time. One gallon of our soil-conditioning product is the equivalent of seven tons of manure. Our products contain beneficial microbes, 30+ vitamins and nutrients, plant growth hormones, and are all 100% biodegradable. Our products help Nature help Nature. A healthy turf is weed free, disease free, utilizes water more efficiently, and increases home value with greater curb appeal.

We are extensively trained, licensed, insured, and ready to serve. We give free estimates and consultations to residential and commercial clients, offer active duty military family and senior citizen discounts.

Stout Services Lawn Care Plus
(843) 639-5229

Http://www.swstout.com (http://www.swstout.com/)
information@swstout.com (information@swstout.com)
</div> **><!** / message **><!** sig **>

picframer
05-26-2009, 05:11 AM
Hey Steve,

Hadn't been to your website before, man you did a bang up job!!!

Something you may be doing but if not here is a tip, because I offer so many services I had a massive list of keywords, more than 20 on the home page, in my experience is not favored by the search engines, so what I did was spread the keywords over every page we have within the site and it's working.

The past three or four days people have been telling me they have been looking and searching for xxxxx service and stumbled across our website by accident, well they call it accident but they finally searched a word that was more specific.

Something else I do, I would guess 40% of our work is in subdivisions where the homes are very close, the other 60% is very large properties, I had a professional sign made for the side of the trucks & trailers that has suction cups that hold it in place, at the bottom is a holder for our post cards (I have to get rid of them somehow as mail drops aren't working) Basically the sign reads You Don't Have A Pen???? Stop by here for a free flyer on our company, check out our company and if you see something that interests you, give us a call, As always estimates are free" It's pretty big lettering and a bright green on a white background, it is working.

Some of the crews are on a site for most of the day, this would be the construction side, people are out and about, take a post card, I know from feed back or comments they are going home, visit the site, go back out to see if we are still around, ask if we can come over, staff take the client name, telephone number and what they are interested in and email it to me on the spot, I call the customer within 30 min and set up an appointment, we receive a tremendous amount of positive feedback on how we are using technology as the prompt replies and calls have won us a pile of business.

We are looking at adding another truck next week also, this will be #5, I am buying Rangers that were leased, most are two years old, low mileage and I am getting them in the $10,000 range. The only issue I am having is no room and a lot of the equipment is out elsewhere, need to take some time to clear trees on the property and make a parking lot, this winter will be an issue as this stuff should be under cover and a garage is not in the budget, I am basically reinvesting every cent of product in tools and equipment, balance sheet sure looks amazing:)

Andy

swstout
05-26-2009, 10:31 AM
Hey Steve,

Hadn't been to your website before, man you did a bang up job!!!

Something you may be doing but if not here is a tip, because I offer so many services I had a massive list of keywords, more than 20 on the home page, in my experience is not favored by the search engines, so what I did was spread the keywords over every page we have within the site and it's working.Andy

Thanks Andy,

My site is a work in progress. I am constantly updating/changing it. I use primary R&D. That's Rob and Dupliccate! When searching the web, competitors sites, suppliers sites I try to take notes on what catches my eye try to incorporate it into my site.

As for keywords, here is this mornings results for Google for the Hartsvill SC area searches:

Organic Lawn care 2-4
Lawn Care 1-5
Natural Insect Control 1, 4-5
Nematoes 2-3
Lawn mowing 1-4
All Natural Insect Control 1-3
Flowering Hedges and Fences 1,3-4,6
Organic Mosquito Control 3-4,6
Chemical Free Mosquito Control 1,3-4
Natural Aeration 1
Nateral Dethatching 1,3-5
Soil Conditioning 1-4
Organic Soil Conditioning 1-2

Yahoo and MSN results are in line with Google

I am concentrating on my local area so a little goes a long way. I spent a month building search engine ratings. I am happy with these results and am spending time marketing and finding new services that profitably fit in with what I am already doing rather than building search engine rtings. When things slow down, I probably will resume the rating quest.

Steve

Tiley
06-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Hey Steve,

You've got me interested in this. I was just wondering if your $24 per 1000sq price was for one spraying or if that included multiple sprayings.

Thanks!

swstout
06-10-2009, 12:45 PM
Hey Steve,

You've got me interested in this. I was just wondering if your $24 per 1000sq price was for one spraying or if that included multiple sprayings.

Thanks!

That is for each spraying (Nature's Magic, Fertilizer, and dethatcher). All three are mixed and done together. For Insect guard, I get $18 per 1,000 sq ft.

I give discounts for larger lots. 8k to 10k - 2.5%, 10k to 15k - 5%, 15K - 20K - 7.5%, 20k - 25k - 10%, 25K+ - 12.5%. I also give customers referral bonuses. Either a WalMart or Lowe's gift card. 1 referral = $10, 2 = $20, 3 = $30, 4 = $50, and 5 = $100. Many are going for the $100 cards. It works!

Steve

XtreemGreen
06-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Hey Steve,

Do you know how the fertilizer would do on our southern turf and mostly sand soil?

chinch bugs are very common problem down here..
Do you need a license for fert, mosquito spraying etc...? Or is it all considered "food"?

XtreemGreen
06-10-2009, 01:11 PM
Steve... Turn on your PM's... I have an idea for you..

swstout
06-10-2009, 01:20 PM
Hey Steve,

Do you know how the fertilizer would do on our southern turf and mostly sand soil?

chinch bugs are very common problem down here..
Do you need a license for fert, mosquito spraying etc...? Or is it all considered "food"?

I am in South Carolina which is mostly sand and it works great here. The Nature's Lawn products actually build humus (the living part of the soil). Here most lawns have at best 3/4" humus. Nature's Magic, Aerify, and biological dethatcher gives new life to the humus layer and has remarkable results.

No license required100% safe

Steve

swstout
06-10-2009, 01:25 PM
Steve... Turn on your PM's... I have an idea for you..

My Gopherhaul PM is on.

Steve

XtreemGreen
06-10-2009, 01:27 PM
hmmmm... Im getting this when I try to PM you..

swstout has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove swstout from the recipient list and send the message again.

swstout
06-10-2009, 01:39 PM
hmmmm... Im getting this when I try to PM you..

swstout has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

If you are trying to send this message to multiple recipients, remove swstout from the recipient list and send the message again.

Sent you a PM let me know if it made it.

Steve

Tiley
06-10-2009, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the reply Steve! Have you used Aerify plus? I want to order the product and try it out on my own lawn first. Do you recommend I try the natures magic, fertilizer and dethatcher together instead of Aerify Plus?

Thanks!

XtreemGreen
06-10-2009, 01:48 PM
I tried to reply, but its still saying you dont receive message's..Pm me your email and Ill email it

swstout
06-10-2009, 01:50 PM
Thanks for the reply Steve! Have you used Aerify plus? I want to order the product and try it out on my own lawn first. Do you recommend I try the natures magic, fertilizer and dethatcher together instead of Aerify Plus?

Thanks!

I have not ordered the Aerify Plus. I order the products seperately. Nature's magic has a 4oz to 1 gallon mix and Aerify has a 1oz to 1 gallon mix. Because you can mix all Nature's Lawn products together I think it will be cheaper in the long run.

I buy in the 2-1/2 or 5 gallon sizes.

Note: if your water is clorinated you have to remove the clorine. I use a declorinator designed for fish ponds and aquariums. It produces a participate that eliminates the clorine. Inexpensive.

Steve

XtreemGreen
06-10-2009, 04:13 PM
I have an outter space question...



Can you drink it and not get sick???? 100% safe and that would be a catcher for customers...


edit****** nevermind... DO NOT DRINK IT......

Tiley
06-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Just wanted to say that I ordered the Aerify plus, Dethatcher and fertilizer and used them on my lawn. I'm already noticing a difference. Now I just need to figure out how to get people interested this service. Any ideas?

Steve
06-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Why not take some before and after pictures of your own lawn. There is nothing like showing results to get customers to sign up.

swstout
06-22-2009, 10:06 PM
Just wanted to say that I ordered the Aerify plus, Dethatcher and fertilizer and used them on my lawn. I'm already noticing a difference. Now I just need to figure out how to get people interested this service. Any ideas?

If you notice the difference, your neighbors will too. If your lawn looks better and greener than your neighbors, put a sign on it stressing the "All natural - Chemical free" properties and people driving by will take note. The Nature's Magic really works fast; the humic acid in it (1 gallon) has the soil improving properties of 7 tons of manure with 50 vitamins and nutrients added plus natural growth hormones. The striking improvement is a great salesman.

Steve

XtreemGreen
06-23-2009, 12:24 AM
Hey Steve, Im back online and looking forward to setting up what we tried to do lastweek....

Also, how much coverage would a 15 gallon sprayer do?

swstout
06-23-2009, 08:33 AM
Hey Steve, Im back online and looking forward to setting up what we tried to do lastweek....

Also, how much coverage would a 15 gallon sprayer do?

The sprayer I use (Fimco 25 Gallon) has a coverage of approximately 500 sq ft per gallon. If the flow rate settings are the same you should get 7,500 sq ft with a 15 gallon sprayer.

These are the guidlines I use.
 


<CENTER><TABLE style="WIDTH: 556px; HEIGHT: 209px" dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=1 borderColor=#000000 cellPadding=7 width=556><TBODY><TR><TD width="33%">Product

</TD><TD width="33%">Oz. per 1,000 sq ft

</TD><TD width="33%">Oz. per gallon

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Nature's Magic

</TD><TD width="33%">4

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Aerify

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD><TD width="33%">0.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Biological Dethatcher

</TD><TD width="33%">3

</TD><TD width="33%">1.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Biological Weeder

</TD><TD width="33%">32

</TD><TD width="33%">16

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Lawn

</TD><TD width="33%">6

</TD><TD width="33%">3

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Flower

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Shrub

</TD><TD width="33%">12

</TD><TD width="33%">6

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fish Emulsion

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

Steve

Tiley
06-24-2009, 04:08 PM
Hey Steve and Andy,

As far as pricing goes, what is included in your mix that you charge $24 per 1000sq ft? Is that the price you charge for Aerify Plus, Dethatcher and fertilizer?

Thanks!

XtreemGreen
07-06-2009, 01:41 PM
bump for a great program...

rblethen
07-07-2009, 08:27 AM
Hello,


Very interesting stuff on this website forum.. some years ago i owned my own tractor trailer, I hauled a product from North Country Organics, after reading the info contained here I went looking for their product, there seem to be a lot of similaritys between the two.


I am just starting out in this business and have found a lot of good stuff here. Thanks

Steve
07-08-2009, 06:10 AM
Hi rblethen,

What got you to start your lawn care business and what kinds of things will you be doing to market it?

Are you going to be focusing on organic lawn care?

mark123
07-08-2009, 06:14 AM
The sprayer I use (Fimco 25 Gallon) has a coverage of approximately 500 sq ft per gallon. If the flow rate settings are the same you should get 7,500 sq ft with a 15 gallon sprayer.

These are the guidlines I use.
 


<CENTER><TABLE style="WIDTH: 556px; HEIGHT: 209px" dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=1 borderColor=#000000 cellPadding=7 width=556><TBODY><TR><TD width="33%">Product

</TD><TD width="33%">Oz. per 1,000 sq ft

</TD><TD width="33%">Oz. per gallon

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Nature's Magic

</TD><TD width="33%">4

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Aerify

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD><TD width="33%">0.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Biological Dethatcher

</TD><TD width="33%">3

</TD><TD width="33%">1.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Biological Weeder

</TD><TD width="33%">32

</TD><TD width="33%">16

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Lawn

</TD><TD width="33%">6

</TD><TD width="33%">3

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Flower

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fertilizer - Shrub

</TD><TD width="33%">12

</TD><TD width="33%">6

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="33%">Fish Emulsion

</TD><TD width="33%">2

</TD><TD width="33%">1

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>

Steve

Can you mix the products in the same tank so that you can apply once instead of two or three?

swstout
07-08-2009, 08:34 AM
Can you mix the products in the same tank so that you can apply once instead of two or three?

Yes you can! That's the beauty of the Nature's Lawn products. You can even apply them in the rain with the exception of the Insect Guard.

Steve

rblethen
07-08-2009, 02:16 PM
Thanks for the welcome. I like to be outside, I grew up working on a farm, we always put back on the fields what we took out, of course it was refined by 100 dairy cows.



Also I needed a bit of excersize, I am interested in the organic products I feel they are safer for the enviroment than synthetic fertilizer.



I have not done too much marketing, I could use a bit of help in that area, mostly I have been going around to family and friends begging to cut their grass. I am working on a logo and also I am going to put out some fliers. it is a little late in the season to get new accounts, I figure there must be 30 or so dissatisfied customers out there that I could get.



I am not working except at fixing my used lawnmower, getting i9t ready on the happenstance that i get a couple of lawns to cut.:cool:

NumberOne
02-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Steve,

Thanks so much for the site.

I read the article at: http://lawnchat.com/?p=995 on the site. I am a bit confused....

Steve Stout had a post on using organic fertilizers. I really like the idea, no licensing required and I think it would go over well here. However...

I think neighbors of mine are getting their lawns sprayed around once per mo. for four months for about $80. That is what the lady across the street said. Maybe senile?

I saw a sample organic flyer on your forum as well that offered lawn treatment for $99/year, so I am guessing she is not far off???

Steve Stout said that he is charging $24/sq. ft.(lowest of several rates he mentioned on the site) and later mentioned a plan that reduces from $34/sq. ft. down to $28.90 on subsequent applications.

Let me see if I get this right...

A typical yard on my block might be 50 x 100 (minus house (say 40 x 25 if no garage) = 4000 sq. ft of lawn (my yard is 25 ft. wider) minus a driveway, sidewalk, etc. For easy purposes, say the spray area = 3000 sq. ft.

Thus, at even the lowest price of $24/sq. ft. I would be charging $72 an application? That seems totally non-competitive when people can get four times the application through the traditional company.

Am I missing something? I really need the help.

Thanks a million,

Mike

winkie61
02-13-2010, 12:39 PM
I want to make sure I understand your pricing methods are you talking about 24.00 per 1000 sq ft so if someone had 3000 sq ft it would be 3000/1000 = 3 so it would be 3 x 24 = 72.00 ?

NumberOne
02-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Yes, that is the way I understand it. 3000 sq. ft. divided by 1000 = 3. 3 x $24/sq. ft. = $72. Even the flyer at http://www.gopherforum.com/showthread.php?t=1035 says programs start as low as $99/year, so I can't charge $72 an application, can I?

picframer
02-14-2010, 05:52 AM
Yes, that is the way I understand it. 3000 sq. ft. divided by 1000 = 3. 3 x $24/sq. ft. = $72. Even the flyer at http://www.gopherforum.com/showthread.php?t=1035 says programs start as low as $99/year, so I can't charge $72 an application, can I?

If programs start at $99.00 a year then yes you can charge $72.00 per application because $72.00 is just the starting point.

ProCut TM
02-14-2010, 08:50 AM
I'm curious to know how this stuff would work in FL
I might order the small bottle and try it out.

swstout
02-14-2010, 10:38 AM
Sorry I'm late getting back to you. Had snowstorm here in South Carolina. Lost power for about 12 hours and DSL for a day and a half.

I guess pricing varies from place to place. I am getting my quoted price here, but a friend in Jacksonville can;t get half of my pricing.

I do offer multi treatments for a discound. ie, Nature's Magic, Aerify and Bio-dethatcher simultaniously for just a little more than applying one product.

Steve

turfmaster
02-14-2010, 09:51 PM
Hey everyone,

You really need to get into Natural Lawn Care. I did a job this morning where I fertilized, enriched the soil, and aerated the lawn using the Nature'S Magic products (Aerafy, Mature's Magic, and Dethatcher). My material costs were under $6.00 and I payed my employee $30.00.
Including travel he spent 2 hours. I bid the job at $408.00 ($24.00 per 1,000 sq. ft.). After material and labor I grossed $337.00. or $118.50 per hour!

I have 5 like jobs for tomorrow. Smaller lots but the same $24.00 per K price. And I get 50% with order and balance on completion. Jobs I did last week got me 4 of tomorrows jobs. The results are that striking and the neighbors are actually pre-sold.

I have only been using these products a few weeks and I am adding a service truck next week just for spraying!

It's time for you to get on the band wagon!

Steve


Do you spray any larger properties and if you do the profit margin must be smaller than the 3000k to 5000k lots.

My customers lot sizes are between 80 to 130,000 sq.ft.
At $24.00 per 1000sq.ft I'm looking at 80x24= $1,920.00 per app.
My wealthiest customers would balk at those prices.

There is interest within my client base for organic lawn care however I don't think people are willing to pay much more than the synthetic programs.

I charge that client with the 80,000 sq. ft lawn $185.00 per app. now just for spraying a 2-4d weed and feed mixture.

What are your thoughts on spraying organics for profit on the larger lawns.

Randy

swstout
02-14-2010, 10:32 PM
Do you spray any larger properties and if you do the profit margin must be smaller than the 3000k to 5000k lots.

My customers lot sizes are between 80 to 130,000 sq.ft.
At $24.00 per 1000sq.ft I'm looking at 80x24= $1,920.00 per app.
My wealthiest customers would balk at those prices.

There is interest within my client base for organic lawn care however I don't think people are willing to pay much more than the synthetic programs.

I charge that client with the 80,000 sq. ft lawn $185.00 per app. now just for spraying a 2-4d weed and feed mixture.

What are your thoughts on spraying organics for profit on the larger lawns.

Randy

An 80K lot would be 4.7 times the lot I gave in my example. The material cost would be about $28.00 ($6 x 4.7). At $185.00 that would gross you about $157.00 or about $1.95 per K for Nature's Magic, Aerify and Bio-enhanced dethatcher.

How much does your 2-4D cost you for that job? How much would it cost the customer to aerate and dethatch that lot.
Also, the 2-4D doesn't improve the soil like Nature's Magic. It kills off soil bio life making the soil less healthy not to mention the health hazards it posses.

Some of the communities here are starting to ban chemical/synthetic fertilizers, insecticides and herbicides (especially the waterfront communities).

You can start with Nature's Magic and up sell other products that cam be applied simultaneously. Value added service for a "little" more. Decide what you want to make.

Here, there are very few lots over 1/3 acre. Most are smaller. My lot is 1.88 acres with half woods.

My point is, get what you can for the job. Up selling adds to your bottom line.

Steve

turfmaster
02-15-2010, 09:35 AM
An 80K lot would be 4.7 times the lot I gave in my example. The material cost would be about $28.00 ($6 x 4.7). At $185.00 that would gross you about $157.00 or about $1.95 per K for Nature's Magic, Aerify and Bio-enhanced dethatcher.

How much does your 2-4D cost you for that job? How much would it cost the customer to aerate and dethatch that lot.
Also, the 2-4D doesn't improve the soil like Nature's Magic. It kills off soil bio life making the soil less healthy not to mention the health hazards it posses.
Steve


I didn't realize the Natures's Magic was that reasonable in cost. I thought it was quite a bit more expensive. I'll have to go back to their website again.

The 2-4D costs me about $50.00 for the 80,000 sq.ft. job.
Mechanical aeration for that job would cost that customer about $750.00

Yea I see your point on up selling the other products. That's what I will work on. Thanks for your reply.

Randy

NumberOne
02-15-2010, 10:50 AM
If programs start at $99.00 a year then yes you can charge $72.00 per application because $72.00 is just the starting point.

So, if you only want one application per year, then it is $72 and if you want the whole year (multiple apps) it is more?

Or is $72 is the starting point, but I am only charging $99/year. (This can't be right.) If I offer 4 applications of the $99 price similar to my competitors, If the first application is $72 (leaving a balance of $27) and the next three are $9 ea.? Even averaging the trips out, that would be $25/trip which is not worth the effort, especially after expenses. How are these guys coming four times across the street with a huge gas-guzzling tanker truck four times per year at $88? I had better call this company and ask about numbers.

Also, I am having a hard time getting an idea about how far the five gallon jug will go (how many sq. foot of the natures magic will cover). One part of the site just said it varies depending on plan folliage size?!? The .pdf of the label, however says 2-4 oz. per 1,000 sq. ft.

How much coverage do you get from the product, Steve? According to my calculations, the 5 gal. jug will make 213.3 gallons or treat 213,300 sf.? That really goes a long way, but I will need to increase my profit margins at the above mentioned.

Am I getting this right or am I lost? I done chemical application professionally. Guess you could tell.

I want to do this, just not for free :) Non-profit lawn care is not my dream job :)

Thanks for helping the slow guy,

Mike

markty
02-15-2010, 12:37 PM
Hi Andy,

I am just down the road in Bridgewater, NS. Very interested in these products and what you have to say about it. This is my very first season and am starting small but this is something I would like to be able to offer clients down this way.

How are the shipping costs when you order for the supplier? And what products would you recommend I start with? Keep it simple for me as I am just starting. I am going after residential lawn care only for right now. Like you say in a lot of your posts on here, try to offer as many services as you can to the customer.

(upgrading the website soon to a dotcom:)

Thanks,

Mark
Grasshopper's Lawn Care & Property Maintenance
http://grasshopperslawncare.web.officelive.com/default.aspx

turfmaster
02-15-2010, 12:53 PM
Right now the biggest drawback that I see for applying these products on larger lawns is that you have to water the stuff in after spraying which would be a pita on a 2 acre property unless you spray in the rain.

Using corn gluten as a weed and feed would be awfully expensive on a larger lot as well. 1 gallon of Gluten-8 treats only 4000 sq.ft. @ $39.95 per gallon.

SuperiorPower
02-15-2010, 01:41 PM
So, I got to wondering about how this works. I know you can spray multiple products at the same time but I got a question about that. As I was trying to make up a spread sheet giving me an idea of how much this would cost, how to mix, etc, I started wondering....

If you are mixing Natures Magic (which requires 2 gallons of water/thousand square feet) and Aerify (which requires 1 gallon of water/thousand square feet), how many gallons do you use? 2 gallons?

Also, while looking at the Bio Dethatcher, I noticed it says to water in with enough water to allow it to soak through the entire thatch layer. How do you determine this? Is this something that you have to play with for each application? With that in mind, if you determine that you need 5 gallons per thousand square feet (for the sake of conversation), do you just keep in mind how many gallons you are applying per thousand when adding the other products?

With that in mind, if you know you are spraying 3000 square feet on a job, would it be ok or even be a good idea to fill up your tank all the way, that way there is more water with your products to help "water it in"?

picframer
02-15-2010, 01:47 PM
Hi Andy,

I am just down the road in Bridgewater, NS. Very interested in these products and what you have to say about it. This is my very first season and am starting small but this is something I would like to be able to offer clients down this way.

How are the shipping costs when you order for the supplier? And what products would you recommend I start with? Keep it simple for me as I am just starting. I am going after residential lawn care only for right now. Like you say in a lot of your posts on here, try to offer as many services as you can to the customer.

(upgrading the website soon to a dotcom:)

Thanks,

Mark
Grasshopper's Lawn Care & Property Maintenance
http://grasshopperslawncare.web.officelive.com/default.aspx

Sorry Mark, Just saw your question, Welcome to the forum.

Your soil is similar to ours, I would start with the Corn Gluten, mized with Aerify Plus and the Liquid Fertilizer, if the client has a lot of thatch then I add the Dethacher and generally sell the Insect Control as it works very well.

As for application, Kent sells the Gilmore back pack sprayers, we have four however I hope to not use them this season as I bought a 40 gallon 3 pt hitch sprayer that will allow us to get into tight areas.

You need to get a broker to import and I assume you are a registered company, I use Atlantic Custom Brokers, I ship ground, takes about 2 weeks and pick it up at Armor transport in Burnside, shipping this way isn't bad however we bring in three pallets of product at a time.

picframer
02-15-2010, 01:49 PM
We mix the other way and what I mean by that is if we are using a 15 gallon sprayer, we add enough product to work out with the 15 gallons of water.

markty
02-15-2010, 03:32 PM
Thanks Andy,

Info is greatly appreciated,

Mark
grasshoppers-lawncare.com
Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, Canada

picframer
02-15-2010, 04:11 PM
I will be ordering from Natures Lawn Care in late March, if you want to add to the order to save on shipping just let me know.

MikeO
02-15-2010, 05:28 PM
When you do the soil testing to see what the PH level is do you charge for that? Lets say $15-20 a test or whatever... If you do, do you take that off the bill if they agree to have this done? I guess from reading between everybody mostly Steve and Pic on this organic lawn care, you guys are adding everything in at once from what I understand. However, why cant you lower the PH if needed, then come back and apply the Aerify. Im getting mixed responses on all of this. Because if the PH level is too high does it not need another treatment depending on the condition?

And by the way Picfarmer I had my website professionally re-done I didnt want you to think I stole that intentionally, I was just getting idea's to get them to look at it and redo it. Should be done sometime later this week finally. I didnt want you to think I was that guy.
Sorry

picframer
02-15-2010, 07:21 PM
When you do the soil testing to see what the PH level is do you charge for that? Lets say $15-20 a test or whatever... If you do, do you take that off the bill if they agree to have this done? I guess from reading between everybody mostly Steve and Pic on this organic lawn care, you guys are adding everything in at once from what I understand. However, why cant you lower the PH if needed, then come back and apply the Aerify. Im getting mixed responses on all of this. Because if the PH level is too high does it not need another treatment depending on the condition?

And by the way Picfarmer I had my website professionally re-done I didnt want you to think I stole that intentionally, I was just getting idea's to get them to look at it and redo it. Should be done sometime later this week finally. I didnt want you to think I was that guy.
Sorry

I send them to the Dept of Agriculture in Truro, they charge me $10.00, I charge the client $35.00.

As for mixing etc. all my clients get the full dose of everything in April and October, during the summer it all depends on the condition of the lawn.

swstout
02-15-2010, 09:08 PM
So, I got to wondering about how this works. I know you can spray multiple products at the same time but I got a question about that. As I was trying to make up a spread sheet giving me an idea of how much this would cost, how to mix, etc, I started wondering....

If you are mixing Natures Magic (which requires 2 gallons of water/thousand square feet) and Aerify (which requires 1 gallon of water/thousand square feet), how many gallons do you use? 2 gallons?

Also, while looking at the Bio Dethatcher, I noticed it says to water in with enough water to allow it to soak through the entire thatch layer. How do you determine this? Is this something that you have to play with for each application? With that in mind, if you determine that you need 5 gallons per thousand square feet (for the sake of conversation), do you just keep in mind how many gallons you are applying per thousand when adding the other products?

With that in mind, if you know you are spraying 3000 square feet on a job, would it be ok or even be a good idea to fill up your tank all the way, that way there is more water with your products to help "water it in"?

Here's what I use (gallon quantity):

Natures Magic 96oz, Aerify 32oz for a coverage of 32K

Nature's Magic 56oz, 16-4-8 72oz coverage of 21K

Nature's Magic 96oz, 16-4-8 17 oz, Aerify 32oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 32oz, Fish Emulsion 96oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 20oz, Fish Emulsion 72oz, Insect Guard 36oz Coverage 10.8K

Steve

SuperiorPower
02-16-2010, 12:34 AM
Here's what I use (gallon quantity):

Natures Magic 96oz, Aerify 32oz for a coverage of 32K

Nature's Magic 56oz, 16-4-8 72oz coverage of 21K

Nature's Magic 96oz, 16-4-8 17 oz, Aerify 32oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 32oz, Fish Emulsion 96oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 20oz, Fish Emulsion 72oz, Insect Guard 36oz Coverage 10.8K

Steve



Sorry, but you totally lost me there. It could just be me being tired, who knows.

MikeO
02-16-2010, 03:16 AM
My biggerst question is what if you cannot get into there gate with your rider? Do you use a backpack sprayer?

Well I will say this much as of now. Just what I had on my website I had alot of calls about it. Mostly came in towards winter time.
So plan of action is too get involved because I didnt even market or advertise it. Had about 8 calls. Doesnt seem like alot but enough to get rolling around spring.

swstout
02-16-2010, 04:12 AM
My biggerst question is what if you cannot get into there gate with your rider? Do you use a backpack sprayer?

Well I will say this much as of now. Just what I had on my website I had alot of calls about it. Mostly came in towards winter time.
So plan of action is too get involved because I didnt even market or advertise it. Had about 8 calls. Doesnt seem like alot but enough to get rolling around spring.

You can use a backpack sprayer but it will wear you out quickly for a large area. I use a hose end sprayer.

Steve

MikeO
02-16-2010, 04:52 AM
Thanks Boss...

I think you mentioned that before. You can mix everything into that? Or is it going to be a step by step procedure?

picframer
02-16-2010, 05:15 AM
Thanks Boss...

I think you mentioned that before. You can mix everything into that? Or is it going to be a step by step procedure?

Everything can be mixed at once, we have a few with gates we can not get through so what we will do is use the 20 foot hose on the electric sprayer then do the rest with the backpack.

NumberOne
02-16-2010, 09:13 AM
Here's what I use (gallon quantity):

Natures Magic 96oz, Aerify 32oz for a coverage of 32K

Nature's Magic 56oz, 16-4-8 72oz coverage of 21K

Nature's Magic 96oz, 16-4-8 17 oz, Aerify 32oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 32oz, Fish Emulsion 96oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 20oz, Fish Emulsion 72oz, Insect Guard 36oz Coverage 10.8K

Steve


Thanks for the help, Steve.

Mike (#1)

lnbn1975
02-16-2010, 01:52 PM
Fantastic thread! I am reading and absorbing as much as possible, and it sounds like a win-win opportunity. One question I have, tho, regarding the products. You list and mention using a "Biological Weeder" in several places, including the mix rate. I don't find this product listed in the Natures Lawn lineup. Do you get this product at another supplier, or has Natures Lawn discontinued this item?

Thanks

Brad

picframer
02-16-2010, 02:35 PM
Fantastic thread! I am reading and absorbing as much as possible, and it sounds like a win-win opportunity. One question I have, tho, regarding the products. You list and mention using a "Biological Weeder" in several places, including the mix rate. I don't find this product listed in the Natures Lawn lineup. Do you get this product at another supplier, or has Natures Lawn discontinued this item?

Thanks

Brad

Steve and I use Liquid Corn Gluten, the product is made here in Canada and their USA distributor is http://www.environmentalfactor.com/liquigold.html
we mix it in with the other products and personally I apply it to clients lawns three to four times a year with excellent results.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
02-16-2010, 02:57 PM
Great info, ordered natures magic to see how well it works before I really start pushing this stuff. But reading the last post all the corn gluten seems to do is promote thickining and shoot growth to crowd out weeds witch organical would seem to be the smartest way aside from nitrogen enriching witch weed intake faster than grass or so i hear.

Anyways my point is do you really need to have the corn gluten if nature's magic and fertilizer for lawns is doing their job ie growing the grass thicker. I dont know... just not seeing the point I guess.

picframer
02-16-2010, 03:25 PM
Great info, ordered natures magic to see how well it works before I really start pushing this stuff. But reading the last post all the corn gluten seems to do is promote thickining and shoot growth to crowd out weeds witch organical would seem to be the smartest way aside from nitrogen enriching witch weed intake faster than grass or so i hear.

Anyways my point is do you really need to have the corn gluten if nature's magic and fertilizer for lawns is doing their job ie growing the grass thicker. I dont know... just not seeing the point I guess.

The key to getting rid of weeds is a healthy lawn, while Corn Gluten will thicken the grass it also will dehydrate weeds, not every weed but the majority of weeds where I live.

Natures Magic works very well, once again where I live compacted and clay soil is a real issue, we sold our core aerators last year after testing Aerify which natures lawn care sells, we however buy the Aerify plus which contains Natures Magic.

Lawns can become dependant on chemicals so the switch to Organic can be a process, some lawns we did last year took four applications to really turn them around but it works well.

We overseed every spring also, if the lawn in question is in really sad shape we will overseed in late summer and again in the spring, during the fall application we apply turf dressing, man does this stuff do wonders but it is desperate expensive, I think my cost is around $700.00 a tandem load, most clients go for it.

NumberOne
02-17-2010, 06:40 AM
The key to getting rid of weeds is a healthy lawn, while Corn Gluten will thicken the grass it also will dehydrate weeds, not every weed but the majority of weeds where I live.

Natures Magic works very well, once again where I live compacted and clay soil is a real issue, we sold our core aerators last year after testing Aerify which natures lawn care sells, we however buy the Aerify plus which contains Natures Magic.

Lawns can become dependant on chemicals so the switch to Organic can be a process, some lawns we did last year took four applications to really turn them around but it works well.

We overseed every spring also, if the lawn in question is in really sad shape we will overseed in late summer and again in the spring, during the fall application we apply turf dressing, man does this stuff do wonders but it is desperate expensive, I think my cost is around $700.00 a tandem load, most clients go for it.

Andy,

Please explain what turf dressing is and where one would buy it. Also, how do you "overseed?" Is it just like it sounds, adding more seed of the same type of grass to fill in the bare spots and encourage turf growth to choke out the weeds?

Thanks,

Mike

picframer
02-17-2010, 08:25 AM
Andy,

Please explain what turf dressing is and where one would buy it. Also, how do you "overseed?" Is it just like it sounds, adding more seed of the same type of grass to fill in the bare spots and encourage turf growth to choke out the weeds?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, Turf dressing is a highly Organic topping for current turf, golf courses use it which is why many fairways are so lush.

Here is my local supplier http://www.kelann.com/products.html

Overseeding is simply applying new grass seed over the existing turf, the goal is to thicken the grass which will help reduce or eliminate weeds.

SuperiorPower
02-17-2010, 10:04 PM
Mike, Turf dressing is a highly Organic topping for current turf, golf courses use it which is why many fairways are so lush.

Here is my local supplier http://www.kelann.com/products.html

Overseeding is simply applying new grass seed over the existing turf, the goal is to thicken the grass which will help reduce or eliminate weeds.

So if I understand correctly, this Turf dressing is essentially a high quality organic top soil? and then the over seeding with the turf dressing makes the new seed take off and helps the old seed grow?

lnbn1975
02-18-2010, 03:55 AM
Here's what I use (gallon quantity):

Natures Magic 96oz, Aerify 32oz for a coverage of 32K

Nature's Magic 56oz, 16-4-8 72oz coverage of 21K

Nature's Magic 96oz, 16-4-8 17 oz, Aerify 32oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 32oz, Fish Emulsion 96oz coverage of 32K

Dethatcher 20oz, Fish Emulsion 72oz, Insect Guard 36oz Coverage 10.8K

Steve


Here is a link to a spreadsheet I made with this product in mind. All you have to do is type in the size lot, in thousands, that you are going to treat. It will give you the amount of each product, including water. Going to use 3 gal. water per acre? Just change the amount of water on that line. Ditto on all the other products. You can change this to calculate about anything you want. Mowing prices, etc. Any questions, let me know.

Click here to go to the post with the spreadsheet. (http://www.gopherforum.com/showpost.php?p=65121&postcount=5)

lnbn1975
02-18-2010, 06:17 PM
I have been reading and absorbing as much as possible in this thread. Right now I am pretty excited about trying the organic route. I was layed off from my job in Nov. and this may be the nudge I need to get my own business in order. I'm at an age that the kids are gone and the only debt we have is our house.

I priced a sprayer today ($275), have 2 riders and more walk-behind Lawnboys than any 1 person should have. I'd like to combine the spraying with residential in our area. I'm doing some thinking on advertising with the local newspaper with an insert rather than a printed ad.

My question is this (not really off topic for this thread, I hope): Can someone that is just getting into the business properly apply these products and learn enough to be intelligent sounding when talking to customers? Just don't want to come off like a buffoon and make a fool of myself.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Brad

swstout
02-18-2010, 08:01 PM
I have found that for the most part, people are not concerned about the "environment" as a whole. What they are concerned about is their environment.

I am not trying to nit pick but it's true. I do not stress the environment as a whole. People are fed up with carbon tax, greenhouse gasses, global warming. These affect their environment - their financial environment.

I stress the "personal environment". I point out the many studies that show how unhealthy chemical/synthetic fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides really are. If they are parents, I point out that children are much more susceptible because of their proximity to the ground and their much lower body mass. I point out that it affects a 30 pound child 5 times more than a 150 pound adult (for a man - 100 pound and 3-1/3 x Times for a woman. People can be awfully touchy about their weight).

I point out that a granular 10-10-10 fertilizer is actually 30% fertilizer and 70% filler. I point out that the chemical fertilizers are laced with salt and chlorine. Neither good for a healthy lawn.

I point out the value added aspects of liquid lawn care products. I compare what it would cost them to aerate, dethatch and fertilize using mechanical means and then show them how I can do all three at once saving time and most of all money for them. Then I get into how my products can treat insect infestations, weeds and poor lawns without endangering their kids and pets.

At some point I show them how my products actually improve the quality of their soil, add organic material, aid and add bio life producing healthy lawns that add curb value to their home.

If they are concerned about the other environment, I point out that only about 12% of the granular products ever get into their soil - the rest is washed away or concentrates in low areas and that mush of it ends up in the water supply. If they have a well, it even more important to their "personal environment"

It works for me. I find I am getting call backs from people that I couldn't sell weeks later.

Steve

psparaco
02-21-2010, 09:40 PM
Ok, I have read just about every post on these organic products and like most uneducated new LCO's on here about organic lawn care, I am too, confused I think.
This is what I think I should do....
Buy aerify, biodethatcher and mature magic and mix all 3 and apply it once in the spring (April-may), midsummer (July-august) and fall (oct-november) for a total of 3 applications in the year. I live in Maryland, so our grass tends to be dormant until mid to end of march, usually after the last frost. So our growing season is April through end of October. I haven't figured out how to market any of these products except for what is written on www.natureslawn.com. Do I need to buy every product or just certain ones? Since I do not own a riding tractor. Should I use a hose end sprayer or backpack or handheld sprayer? Since I would be using the customer's water, should I reduce the rate for which I would charge? or opt for a handheld sprayer. 90% of my customer's lawns are 1,000-4,000 square foot. So I am thinking a handheld sprayer would be my best bet since a lot of my customers are renters so they tend to be weird about anyone but them using their water since the landlord puts the water bill on their rent every 3 months.
Anyway. Of those I have for clients. What do I say to them? Some of their yards look like they need these products. It rains and they have pools of water, an obvious sign of compaction. When it's not a drought situation and the grass is semi brown. I am still researching nature lawn's website to learn more on the products. Some don't care as long as the grass is cut and that's it. I want to put on my spring marketing flyer additional services I can provide whether or not I have done them currently or could add them in the future if the demand is there for it. Cause once I set in stone what's on the flyer. I intend to print out 2500-5000 flyers and use them for the entire season if not yearly until I run out of them and then I can update the flyer as need me. just trying to save myself money. Anyway...
bottom-line.
Do I need to buy every product or just certain ones?
Should I use a hose end sprayer or backpack or handheld sprayer?
Since I would be using the customer's water, should I reduce the rate for which I would charge?
What do I say to current and future clients about the products and why pay for this service.?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Paul

ProCut TM
02-21-2010, 09:57 PM
what kind of sprayers are you guys using, would this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9583) be good? If so how do you ensure complete coverage.

XtreemGreen
02-21-2010, 10:12 PM
what kind of sprayers are you guys using, would this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9583) be good? If so how do you ensure complete coverage.

Thats the same one Im going to get....:D

picframer
02-22-2010, 04:36 AM
what kind of sprayers are you guys using, would this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9583) be good? If so how do you ensure complete coverage.

At the start we were using Gilmore backpack sprayers however by mid may we had acquired a number of large lawns (over 10,000 sq/ft) it was brutal to spray these by hand so I bought the 15 & 40 gallon tow unit from Deere. I had a 60 gallon Fimco but we had issues with the filters and it was returned.

When I bought the X749 tractor I started looking for a 3 pt hitch sprayer as it would allow us to get into tight spots, in December Deere announced a 45 gallon 3 pt hitch sprayer so I ordered one, all my gear is packed away in sheds I built or I would put it on and take an picture, I had to go bigger as we were starting to spend too much time refilling the 15 gallon unit.

For 2010 if the lawn is 5,000 or less I will use backpack sprayers

If we can not get to the area to be sprayed with either a tow or the new sprayer we have the 8 gallon Fimco electric sprayers, they will go two days spraying between charges and they look something like the suit case's we use on wheels.

We will use the clients water if they are on a well which would mean no chlorine, if it is in the city then we generally have around 50 gallons of water with is and all sprayers are filled before we leave in the morning.

I suspect we overspray more than we miss an area, keep in mind we only spray just prior to or during a rain, this ensures the product gets deep into the soil, it also ensures if we missed a spot there will be distribution due to the rain, both the tow and 3pt sprayer have 20 foot hose's so you can get off the tractor and get the spot you can not get to.

picframer
02-22-2010, 04:44 AM
Thats the same one Im going to get....:D

I would encourage you to google reviews on whatever brand you settle on as they are not created equal and the last thing you want is issues spraying, especially if the client is around, I learned this the hard way.

For backpack we found the Gilmore never let us down once, for a hand tow unit the Fimco 8 gallon units are excellent, Brinley-Hardy Co makes the tow and 3 pt hitch sprayers for Deere, they are excellent sprayers with not one issue and we sprayed thousands of gallons last year.

http://www.brinly.com/lawn-care-products/sprayers/

http://www.fimcoindustries.com/turf_sprayer_standard.html

I considered the ATV sprayers similar to your post however my ATV's are full time four wheel drive which tears up the turf. Then I considered making a holder for the back of our garden tractors for these units, the goal was to get something that allowed me into tight spots and the tow units are a real pain when you get into tight areas, it was then I herd Deere was coming out with a 3pt hitch sprayer so I just waited then bought one, will probably trade the two tow sprayers and add another 3pt hitch sprayer by June.

NumberOne
02-22-2010, 09:40 PM
what kind of sprayers are you guys using, would this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9583) be good? If so how do you ensure complete coverage.

John,

FYI Beware of Harbor freight. Though they have the lowest prices around, it's because EVERYTHING they sell is a cheap, poorly designed, low quality Chineese import. The pic you have on your link looks nice. If it is economy you are going for then that might be the way to go but I sure wouldn't recommend that if you are going commercial. Try Fimco sprayers.

#1

MountainViewGreenskeeper
02-22-2010, 09:59 PM
Did I do my math right? If I did wow. (all at max mixing ratios) Aerify! and Nature's Magic are both less than 1$ per 1000 sq ft to spray. Dethatcher, Fertilizer for lawns, and insect around 1.50 per 1000 sq ft. And Fish emulsion and Wipeout at almost 3.50$ per 1000 sq ft. IS THIS RIGHT? You could do everything for $30 a sq ft and still be on top? My math cant be right can it? someone please correct me.....

ProCut TM
02-22-2010, 10:03 PM
John,

FYI Beware of Harbor freight. Though they have the lowest prices around, it's because EVERYTHING they sell is a cheap, poorly designed, low quality Chineese import. The pic you have on your link looks nice. If it is economy you are going for then that might be the way to go but I sure wouldn't recommend that if you are going commercial. Try Fimco sprayers.

#1 I know, but for just starting out with a few job it will do the job. I use the 4 gal backpack from there and it has been ok so far.
once the spray business picks up I will buy commercial grade equipment. I would like to do an ATV or lawn tractor with the fimco unit, but I don't ramp out with out having the work first.

swstout
02-22-2010, 10:47 PM
Did I do my math right? If I did wow. (all at max mixing ratios) Aerify! and Nature's Magic are both less than 1$ per 1000 sq ft to spray. Dethatcher, Fertilizer for lawns, and insect around 1.50 per 1000 sq ft. And Fish emulsion and Wipeout at almost 3.50$ per 1000 sq ft. IS THIS RIGHT? You could do everything for $30 a sq ft and still be on top? My math cant be right can it? someone please correct me.....

Here is how I figured my costing
<TABLE dir=ltr border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=756><TBODY><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Product

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Size

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Oz

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Cost

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Tax

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Shipping

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Total

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Cost/OZ

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Oz/k

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Nature's Magic

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 29.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 2.32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 46.32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.36

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">2

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Aerify

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 90.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 7.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 112.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.88

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">0.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Fish Emulsion

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 34.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 2.72

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 51.72

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.40

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">2

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Fertiizer - lawn

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 29.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 2.32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 46.32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.36

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">6

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Fertilizer- Flower

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Quart

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 1.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 4.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 20.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.63

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">2

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Fertilizer - Shrub

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Quart

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">32

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 1.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 4.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 20.20

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.63

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">12

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Biological Dethatcher

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 58.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 4.64

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 15.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 77.64

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.61

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">3

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Biological Weeder

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">5 Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">640

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 95.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 7.60

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 75.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 177.60

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.28

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">32

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=19 width="27%">Liquid Sulfur

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">Gallon

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">128

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 12.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.96

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 4.00

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 16.96

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">$ 0.13

</TD><TD height=19 width="9%">8

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Sales Tax is in the above table. It doesn't need to be there unless you are in the same state as the supplier. I keep it for pricing purposes (call it a hedge fund).

Steve

MountainViewGreenskeeper
02-22-2010, 10:53 PM
Thank you. besides shipping and tax thats about what I got pricing wise. It almost seems like any serious lawn care company should offer this just for the fact its cheap to do and would set you apart from most other companies and then take their customers lol.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
02-22-2010, 10:55 PM
Oh 1 more thing where do you get Bio weeder and liquid sulfer at, just out of curiosity? Its not the same as the other is cause I cant find it?

ProCut TM
02-22-2010, 11:06 PM
Andy & Steve

what products are you including at $24 per 1k
and what do you charge for additional products applied at the same time?

swstout
02-22-2010, 11:12 PM
http://www.agorganics.com/products/Soil-Sul-Liquid-Sulfur**Gallon/13/186.html (http://www.agorganics.com/products/Soil-Sul-Liquid-Sulfur**Gallon/13/186.html) Liquid Sulfur

http://www.gemplers.com/product.aspx?itemNo=156302&s_kwcid=TC|4086|liquid%20iron%20for%20plants||S|e| 3012835615 (http://www.gemplers.com/product.aspx?itemNo=156302&s_kwcid=TC|4086|liquid%20iron%20for%20plants||S|e| 3012835615) Liquid Iron

http://www.turboturf.com/Liquid_Lime.htm (http://www.turboturf.com/Liquid_Lime.htm) Liquid Lime

Bio Weeder is available at Nature's Lawn - The same place you get Nature's Magic. It's not ontheir site yet but it is available. Call them.

Steve

ProCut TM
02-22-2010, 11:20 PM
Steve I'm confused as too what the last set of numbers in your chart mean

swstout
02-22-2010, 11:21 PM
Andy & Steve

what products are you including at $24 per 1k
and what do you charge for additional products applied at the same time?

It depends on the turf. Here probably 75% of the lawns are Centipede. Centipede requires very little nitrogen and no phosphorus or potassium. No more than 9-0-0 twice a year.
For Centipede lawns I use Natures Magic, Aerify and either liquid Iron or Liquid Sulfur for $24.00/k. Both Iron and Sulfur will green up the turf.

For the other turfs in the area I use Nature's Magic, Aerify and the lawn fertilizer for the same price.

Steve

ProCut TM
02-22-2010, 11:25 PM
It depends on the turf. Here probably 75% of the lawns are Centipede. Centipede requires very little nitrogen and no phosphorus or potassium. No more than 9-0-0 twice a year.
For Centipede lawns I use Natures Magic, Aerify and either liquid Iron or Liquid Sulfur for $24.00/k. Both Iron and Sulfur will green up the turf.

For the other turfs in the area I use Nature's Magic, Aerify and the lawn fertilizer for the same price.

Steve


what do you add to do the bio-dethatcher and the insect guard?

swstout
02-22-2010, 11:30 PM
2 times cost

Steve

lnbn1975
02-23-2010, 06:05 AM
what kind of sprayers are you guys using, would this (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9583) be good? If so how do you ensure complete coverage.

We have a store chain in this part of the country called Farm and Fleet. Lots of agricultural products at good prices, including tools, clothes, etc. I bought a Fimco 15 gallon sprayer, similar to the one shown, for $79.99 a year or 2 ago. Good product, no problems so far, but I only use it at home, not commercially.

lnbn1975
02-23-2010, 06:09 AM
Here is a dumb question. If I was to purchase one of the 26 gal sprayers, with an 84 inch swath, how do you know the correct speed of your tractor to get the right coverage. Meaning, how do you calculate covering 1000 sq. ft. at the appropriate flow rate?

lnbn1975
02-23-2010, 06:18 AM
Another question. Being the cautious individual that I am, I am contemplating hanging a flier with pull tabs in about 8-10 business establishments with bulletin boards. If I get any response, I would like to do a newspaper insert, with certain neighborhoods targeted.

Have any of you put together a short and sweet flyer of this type? I could pick out short key phrases from this thread, but just want to be honest on what I promote, so I can deliver as promised.

Thanks again!

lnbn1975
02-23-2010, 06:40 AM
One more question. One the insect repellent, I read that there is an odor to it. How long is this odor present? I'd hate to apply this in advance of a party and have the lawn smelling like Mama's Italian Restaurant (tho that wouldn't be a bad thing, I suppose!).

swstout
02-23-2010, 08:21 AM
One more question. One the insect repellent, I read that there is an odor to it. How long is this odor present? I'd hate to apply this in advance of a party and have the lawn smelling like Mama's Italian Restaurant (tho that wouldn't be a bad thing, I suppose!).

They say 1-2 hours. I usually try to allow 2-4 hours. For out door parties, I try to apply the day before. It lasts 4-5 weeks. Be sure to spray trees and bushs up to head height also.

Steve

ProCut TM
02-28-2010, 10:26 PM
I'll be placing a small test order tomorrow

XtreemGreen
03-01-2010, 05:11 PM
Let me know how this work John...

wdcutter
03-17-2010, 10:06 AM
I also am waiting on a small test order, it should be in the first of the week. I was wondering what you are using to spray for mosquitoes?

Steve
03-17-2010, 06:02 PM
There was some talk about mosquito spray on here in another post, I don't know how well that stuff works though.

Big Jim
03-17-2010, 10:51 PM
I was also wondering what steve is using for mosquito's.

picframer
03-18-2010, 06:56 AM
There was some talk about mosquito spray on here in another post, I don't know how well that stuff works though.

We used two products, results are mixed to poor, I ordered way to much from a company here based on what they said and client comments however it didn't work well and they will not take it back, until I find something that works, we will not offer this service in 2010.

bkuhn18
06-25-2010, 10:31 AM
Hi guys.

Thanks for all the great information regarding spraying natureslawn and other products. I am a bit confused though with regards to mixing the products and water, can you please help?

I plan on buying a 4 gallon gilmour backpack sprayer.

If I use the following products per 1000 sq ft, how much water do I need to add?

Natures Magic - 4 ounces
Aerify - 1 ounce
Dethatcher - 3 ounces
Fertilizer lawn - 6 ounces
Liquid Iron - ? ounces (i dont know the ratio for this nor do i have a place to buy this yet)

How much water do I add to that mixture?

Thanks a bunch!

Brad

swstout
06-25-2010, 11:35 AM
Hi guys.

Thanks for all the great information regarding spraying natureslawn and other products. I am a bit confused though with regards to mixing the products and water, can you please help?

I plan on buying a 4 gallon gilmour backpack sprayer.

If I use the following products per 1000 sq ft, how much water do I need to add?

Natures Magic - 4 ounces
Aerify - 1 ounce
Dethatcher - 3 ounces
Fertilizer lawn - 6 ounces
Liquid Iron - ? ounces (i dont know the ratio for this nor do i have a place to buy this yet)

How much water do I add to that mixture?

Thanks a bunch!

Brad

The formula for product coverage for 1000 sq. ft. is oz, in one gallon of product (128) times 1000 (desired coverage) divided by the coverage of one gallon of product.

<TABLE dir=ltr border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=12 width=293><TBODY><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Product

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">1 Gallon Coverage

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">1000 aq. ft. Coverage

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Neem Oil

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">32000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">4

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Gluten 8

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">8000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">16

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Liq Lime

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">9200

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">14

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Liq Iron

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">17600

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">7

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Liq Sulfur

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">25000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">5

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Wipeout

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">32000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">4

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Insect Guard

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">32000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">4

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Dethatcher

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">44000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">3

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">F&F

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">25600

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">5

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">T&S

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">32000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">4

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">LF

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">21200

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">6

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Fish Em

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">10800

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">12

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Aerify

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">128000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">1

</TD></TR><TR><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="36%">Nat Mag

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">32000

</TD><TD height=0 vAlign=bottom width="32%">4

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

Mix your desired product and add 2 gallons of water per 1000 sq. ft. desired coverage.
Nature’s Magic 4 oz
Aerify 1 oz
Dethatcher 3 oz
Lawn Fert 6 oz
Liq. Iron 7 oz
So you will have 21 oz product added to 256 oz water

Steve

bkuhn18
06-25-2010, 04:24 PM
Thanks Steve!

That is perfect! I appreciate your time. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Brad

bkuhn18
06-26-2010, 10:45 AM
Can anyone give me a liquid iron supplier? Also, are there any in Canada?

Thanks.
Brad

swstout
06-26-2010, 02:01 PM
Try these

http://www.omex.com/agrifluids/searchitem.aspx?m=433 (http://www.omex.com/agrifluids/searchitem.aspx?m=433) liquid iron Canada

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002XF09SI/ref=asc_df_B002XF09SI1151361?smid=A2TJENDTNCL7F7&tag=pgmp-1160-11-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002XF09SI (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002XF09SI/ref=asc_df_B002XF09SI1151361?smid=A2TJENDTNCL7F7&tag=pgmp-1160-11-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B002XF09SI)

bkuhn18
06-29-2010, 10:34 AM
I am also planning on using corn gluten with my spraying and I have a question. Can liquigold or gluten8 be used in conjunction with the following mix? Or does gluten have to be sprayed seperate? There is also an option for 1-0-0 or 7-0-0 for liquid gold. I would guess that if I use 1-0-0 I could mix it with the below products for one spraying?

Natures Magic - 4 ounces
Aerify - 1 ounce
Dethatcher - 3 ounces
Fertilizer lawn - 6 ounces
Liquid Iron - 7 onces

THANKS again so much for your guidance and time.

Brad

swstout
06-29-2010, 04:23 PM
I am also planning on using corn gluten with my spraying and I have a question. Can liquigold or gluten8 be used in conjunction with the following mix? Or does gluten have to be sprayed seperate? There is also an option for 1-0-0 or 7-0-0 for liquid gold. I would guess that if I use 1-0-0 I could mix it with the below products for one spraying?

Natures Magic - 4 ounces
Aerify - 1 ounce
Dethatcher - 3 ounces
Fertilizer lawn - 6 ounces
Liquid Iron - 7 onces

THANKS again so much for your guidance and time.

Brad

Yes,
Natures Magic - 4 ounces
Aerify - 1 ounce
Dethatcher - 3 ounces
Fertilizer lawn - 6 ounces
Liquid Iron - 7 onces
Gluten-8 - 16 ounces

But, that would be 37 ounces of product to be mixed with 2 gallons of water per 1,000 sq. ft. I would do the Gluten-8 serarately.

Steve

mark123
06-29-2010, 04:31 PM
I can't really get 2 gallons per 1000 square feet with my setup. Unless of course I walk really slowly. I'm set up for about .75 gal/1000 right now. Can I get away with that?

swstout
06-29-2010, 04:40 PM
It looks like you will have to make 3 runs. (0.75*3=2.25) A little rich but usable.

If you could adjust to 0.66 it would equal 1.98

Steve

mark123
06-29-2010, 06:27 PM
It looks like you will have to make 3 runs. (0.75*3=2.25) A little rich but usable.I'll just look into getting a nozzle with a higher flow rate. I'm running a 50 gallon tank so I'll only be able to do 25000 sqft at a time.

If you could adjust to 0.66 it would equal 1.98 It's actually .68 at full walking speed. The .75 is slowing the pace down a bit.

rom818
07-09-2010, 12:17 PM
I have baclpack sprayers but they are to much work and time consumming. I use a Fimco 25 gallon tow behind unit. http://www.fimcoindustries.com

It sprays an 80" swath towed behind my lawn tractor.

I can spray Mature's Magic, Dethatcher, and fertilizer all at the same time.

Steve

Steve,

You're only using tow behind sprayers? You don't water in any of this stuff at all?

jason

swstout
07-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Steve,

You're only using tow behind sprayers? You don't water in any of this stuff at all?

jason


I use the tow behind sprayers whenever I can. Some times I can’t get it onto job sites (fenced in with too narrow a gate). I also use hose end sprayers and backpack sprayers when I have to.
I use the backpack sprayer for flower beds. Nature’s Magic, Aerify and the fertilizers all can discolor the flowers. The backpack sprayer is much more controllable.

P pretty much let the customer water in after applications. If they want me to do it for them, I charge $50.00 per hour. I leave a watering pamphlet for then

Steve

vovka86
07-27-2010, 11:52 AM
I noticed a lot of people on this site ordered samples of Natures Magic fert.

Would like to hear feedback from those people.

Did the product work for you, and are you offering this service.

bkuhn18
07-28-2010, 09:20 AM
Hey All.

Thanks again for all the great information on this topic. I have a couple more questions regarding applying Nature's Lawn products.

Steve, you say to add a de-chlorinator to the mixture as the chlorine kills the product, so what happens when the customer waters in the product after you spray? Doesn't the chlorine in the water they use hurt the product?

Also, how long after application do you have to water in the product? Or is watering in just a suggestion and not 100% required?

THANKS!

Brad

LawnMoore
08-01-2010, 08:35 PM
We used two products, results are mixed to poor, I ordered way to much from a company here based on what they said and client comments however it didn't work well and they will not take it back, until I find something that works, we will not offer this service in 2010.

Is natures magic mosquito compound one of the ones you tested with mixed to poor results?

Have you found a mosquito control that works yet?

picframer
08-02-2010, 05:11 AM
Is natures magic mosquito compound one of the ones you tested with mixed to poor results?

Have you found a mosquito control that works yet?

They buy the Mosquito Control or at least they were, from a company out of Ontario, I bought the concentrate direct also, it works on Mosquito's however it didn't work on Black Flies as advertised, when I brought the issue up with the Ontario company they simply did not respond which left me with a pile of useless product.

This year I simply did not offer the service and honestly didn't look into it any further.

LawnMoore
08-02-2010, 11:28 PM
They buy the Mosquito Control or at least they were, from a company out of Ontario, I bought the concentrate direct also, it works on Mosquito's however it didn't work on Black Flies as advertised, when I brought the issue up with the Ontario company they simply did not respond which left me with a pile of useless product.

This year I simply did not offer the service and honestly didn't look into it any further.

So you havent tryed natures magic pest controll? I thought i saw this advertised on their site, and since you guys used the aerify etc i thought maybe you had tried that as well ;)

thx!

picframer
08-03-2010, 03:53 AM
So you havent tryed natures magic pest controll? I thought i saw this advertised on their site, and since you guys used the aerify etc i thought maybe you had tried that as well ;)

thx!

I was just on their site, I don't see a pest control, we use their Wipe Out and Insect Guard however it is not designed for Mosquito's or Black Flies. Do you have a link to what you were looking at?

LawnMoore
08-03-2010, 02:56 PM
I was just on their site, I don't see a pest control, we use their Wipe Out and Insect Guard however it is not designed for Mosquito's or Black Flies. Do you have a link to what you were looking at?

It was the insect guard, i didnt read into just noticed it for sale ;)

I will look into further to see what its for since its not for dreaded deer flys and mosquitos, and thats what i need a product to repel!

Thanks

mark123
08-05-2010, 06:07 AM
It looks like you will have to make 3 runs. (0.75*3=2.25) A little rich but usable.

If you could adjust to 0.66 it would equal 1.98
Mr. Stout,

Do you have any insight on the reason behind using more water volume in the applications? Is it due to the viscosity of the product? If my spray tip can handle the product is there really any harm in laying down .75 gallons per 1000 square feet with a higher concentration of the product?

cleancutlawncare5382
08-05-2010, 11:39 AM
Any reason not to start treating lawns right away? Here in western PA the temp is 85 / 90 and I was wondering if I shouldn't wait till Sept when the rains start and it cools off some. Sept will be the big push for reseed , aerate , and lime ( if needed ). I want to add the organic fertilizing as well.

I guess my question is does the heat effect Natures Magic?

picframer
08-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Heat will not hurt it when spraying however you need rain or a client that will water the lawn for an hour after you spray to get the desired results. If you did Natures Magic now, you can add it again when you overseed in September, add the Liquid Fertilizer at the same time.

Fresh Cut
08-07-2010, 11:29 AM
I've read the whole thread.

I noticed that no one has mentioned using the Aerify PLUS that is listed on the website as a 50-50 mix of Nature's Magic and Aerify.

I did the numbers on this product based on the 5 gallon price(two 2.5 gallon jugs @ $160 each) = $320

$320/5 = $64 per gallon. $64/ 128 ounces in a gallon = $0.5 per ounce is my cost.

Now, using the max application rate of 4 oz. per 1000 sq. ft. because of the red clay we have in Georgia, I come up with the cost of $2/k sq. ft.

At this rate it would cost me $10 to do my average yard size of 5k sq. ft.!

This is without factoring in shipping cost or the cost of the equipment, but I'm ecstatic about it! I was reading this thread asking myself how I can afford to incorporate this into my setup, but ...........How can I afford NOT to?!

For a $10 cost to me I can do my average customer's yard, charge them $31 and still be $15 less than TruGreen or ChemLawn or whoever they use that charges 'em $48/month.
And for $10 to me I've applied 2 great products and bought them already mixed together.


I have a question, though.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Aerify PLUS? Being a 50/50 mix of Nature's Magic and Aerify, I would think it would be popular at least with Andy & Steve.

For weeds, what do y'all use?
I bought some gluten-8 but it's expensive and I haven't really seen the results. I bought a gallon back in like january and used half of it then they sent me another gallon ??? So when I called to inquire about it they said that they had sent out a bad batch that didn't have a shelf life or something, said it wouldn't be as effective. I haven't opened the new bottle they sent me yet, but when I do.... is it still gonna be any good? Does it go bad after sitting for a few months? Also, by comparison Gluten-8 doesn't stretch as far, you have to use a higher concentration in the mixture which raises the cost essentially. Does the results from Gluten-8 warrant this higher cost?

For starters, these are the products I'm looking at, Aerify PLUS (50% Nature's Magic, 50% Aerify) and Gluten-8.
What can I expect from mixing & applying these products to my customers' yards???

DillonB92
08-07-2010, 12:53 PM
when talking about the lot size and how much you need to spray how do you determine or find out how big the lot is? If there is a house on the lot doesn't that decrease the amount you have to spray

picframer
08-07-2010, 02:01 PM
We did have a discussions somewhere, it is because no two lawns are the same, some need a double dose of Aerify and regular Natures Magic. In short I custom mix for each lawn.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
08-07-2010, 04:03 PM
lol what happened to steve havent heard from him in a while. Anyways I think steve said a while back its cheaper to order aerify and nature's magic seperately. Could be wrong.

Fresh Cut
08-07-2010, 06:21 PM
We did have a discussions somewhere, it is because no two lawns are the same, some need a double dose of Aerify and regular Natures Magic. In short I custom mix for each lawn.

How is this when you say you do so many in one day and can only carry so much product?

You mix on the fly? If so, what kind of setup do you have?

Do you only mix enough in the sprayers that will cover each particular yard?

picframer
08-07-2010, 07:12 PM
How is this when you say you do so many in one day and can only carry so much product?

You mix on the fly? If so, what kind of setup do you have?

Do you only mix enough in the sprayers that will cover each particular yard?

Sprays are mixed at each yard, over 90 percent of my clients are on wells or live on water as Halifax has hundreds of lakes. Personally I use an X749 with a 25 gallon 3pt hitch sprayer which can spray up to 10 feet per pass, it's super fast to mix, spray and head out to the next site.

I generally have around 100 gallons of concentrate when I leave for a full day, when we have five crews out during peak season, we have a host or sprayers that we use to match the yard to be done.

Fresh Cut
08-09-2010, 01:54 PM
What's the difference between a 3 pt hitch sprayer( Like this one http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/grd/1884472267.html) and something like this http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/grd/1888673747.html?

I would ideally want to attach whatever I get to my Exmark Lazer Z LZ27KC524.

Which would work better and why?

Fresh Cut
08-11-2010, 09:02 PM
Andy(picframer), can you post pics of your setup for spraying?

I'm exploring ideas of how to incorporate this into my operation while keeping the overhead as low as possible. From the figures that I have, the equipment to apply the products is going to be the most expensive aspect of this.

Also, I want it to be convenient as possible so as not to interfere with my current operation. I would like to implement this service seamlessly and maintain my growth consistently.


"Consistently average is better than inconsistently above average."

Fresh Cut
08-11-2010, 09:06 PM
I've read the whole thread.

I noticed that no one has mentioned using the Aerify PLUS that is listed on the website as a 50-50 mix of Nature's Magic and Aerify.

...

I have a question, though.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the Aerify PLUS? Being a 50/50 mix of Nature's Magic and Aerify, I would think it would be popular at least with Andy & Steve.

For weeds, what do y'all use?
I bought some gluten-8 but it's expensive and I haven't really seen the results. I bought a gallon back in like january and used half of it then they sent me another gallon ??? So when I called to inquire about it they said that they had sent out a bad batch that didn't have a shelf life or something, said it wouldn't be as effective. I haven't opened the new bottle they sent me yet, but when I do.... is it still gonna be any good? Does it go bad after sitting for a few months? Also, by comparison Gluten-8 doesn't stretch as far, you have to use a higher concentration in the mixture which raises the cost essentially. Does the results from Gluten-8 warrant this higher cost?

For starters, these are the products I'm looking at, Aerify PLUS (50% Nature's Magic, 50% Aerify) and Gluten-8.
What can I expect from mixing & applying these products to my customers' yards???

... tapping foot

MountainViewGreenskeeper
08-11-2010, 09:40 PM
... tapping foot

I know im not the one the question is directed at but I swear steve said its cheaper to by aerify and NM seperate. Also if you read all the way to the beggining of the post I think the gluten 8 question was asked before. It will prevent new growth with the gluten 8 and promote existing growth with the aerify and NM.

Fresh Cut
08-12-2010, 12:33 AM
I know im not the one the question is directed at but I swear steve said its cheaper to by aerify and NM seperate. Also if you read all the way to the beggining of the post I think the gluten 8 question was asked before. It will prevent new growth with the gluten 8 and promote existing growth with the aerify and NM.

Prevent new growth of what? Weeds or grass?

Promote existing growth of weeds with aerify and nature's magic?

not quite following you

Neither aerify or nature's magic fight weeds, and gluten-8 is mainly for fertilization and pre-emergent weed control. What about the weeds that are already present? What about post-emergent weed control?

picframer
08-12-2010, 04:19 AM
I don't have any pictures of the backpack sprayers or the pull cart sprayers, It won't let me upload them to the site again, go to my website www.oakridgeyardcare.ca and click on equipment.

picframer
08-12-2010, 04:21 AM
Prevent new growth of what? Weeds or grass?

Promote existing growth of weeds with aerify and nature's magic?

not quite following you

Neither aerify or nature's magic fight weeds, and gluten-8 is mainly for fertilization and pre-emergent weed control. What about the weeds that are already present? What about post-emergent weed control?

You buy them seperate as some yards need more of the Aerify.

Corn Gluten 8 fights weeds, kills some fungus like rust, has nitrogen to help the lawn. The Natures Magic helps build a strong root system thus a thick lawn, thick lawn means no weeds, however you need to start with the weed issue.

Fresh Cut
08-13-2010, 12:14 AM
You buy them seperate as some yards need more of the Aerify.

Corn Gluten 8 fights weeds, kills some fungus like rust, has nitrogen to help the lawn. The Natures Magic helps build a strong root system thus a thick lawn, thick lawn means no weeds, however you need to start with the weed issue.

You say that Gluten-8 fights weeds, but does it kill weeds?

I've come to realize there is a difference.

I didn't get the same results from Gluten-8 that I got from this...

picframer
08-13-2010, 04:47 AM
You say that Gluten-8 fights weeds, but does it kill weeds?

I've come to realize there is a difference.

I didn't get the same results from Gluten-8 that I got from this...

And you won't, this is why we have to educate ourselves so that we totally understand the process and can explain this process to the client so that their expectations are set.

One Kills the weeds using chemicals which are harmful to pets, children, wildlife, can cause issues with the soil and a host of other reasons including being illegal where I live, Organics in this case will dehydrate the weed, you overseed to make the grass thick, fertilize etc. A healthy lawn will never have a weed.

Fresh Cut
09-06-2010, 04:01 PM
I'm wondering guys....

What's the best way for me to start into this as far as application equipment is concerned?

My zero turn isn't operable right now so I'm only using my Exmark walk behind and I don't have a backpack sprayer.

Should I just buy a backpack sprayer, Aerify & Nature's Magic and get busy?

I'm thinking about the pull behind boom sprayers vs. the mounted boom sprayers that I could mount on the back of my zero turn once I get it running.

picframer
09-06-2010, 05:31 PM
I started with Backpack sprayers in April of last year, Gilmore is the best and I still have them however I had to quickly opgrade to larger sprayers as it was taking forever on large properties, keep in mind the profit is high, start small and you can expand quickly.

You should be able to easily buy an ATV sprayer and mount it on the baxk of the ZTR, I know some of the guys on the tractor forum have built mounts for small mowers so you should be able to also.

Aerify, Natures Magic, Dethacher and Fertilizer would be the start, we offer all their products along with corn gluten, I can make a grand a day, by myself with the setup I use.

swstout
09-06-2010, 09:30 PM
I primarily use tow behind sprayers, but also use backpack sprayers for jobs that need a little more control such as on flowerbeds with flowers in bloom (the products tend to stain the retals).

I also use a hose end sprayer for certain jobs ( like fenced in yards that I can't get my rig thru). I also can use it out of my car, when crew's are busy. My wife has even done some yards out of her car.

Steve

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-06-2010, 11:01 PM
Hose end sprayer and back pack sprayer seem to be cheapest and easiest to get into it. Built a tank sprayer setup and it sits in my drive way now.

Fresh Cut
09-13-2010, 02:04 AM
Hose end sprayer and back pack sprayer seem to be cheapest and easiest to get into it. Built a tank sprayer setup and it sits in my drive way now.

This is my route for now! I bought a Stihl SG-20 backpack sprayer for $115 this past week and I'm about to buy my first batch of products..... but as I'm looking at the site and thinking about what properties I'll be spraying initially I'm forced to consider the RTU hose end sprayer.

Andy & Steve,

I'm reading the site about Aerify and it says that the RTU hose end sprayer It is preset to spray at 1 oz of product per gallon of water.
Then I click the link to the Aerify! label PDF and it says...
Hose-end Sprayer setting is 1/2 ounce per gallon of water.

Also, by looking at the Aerify size options and prices I'm thinking that the Aerify Concentrate is different from the Aerify RTU. When compared in the quart size for both, Aerify Concentrate covers 32k sq. ft. while the RTU Aerify (which is a quart, per the picture) covers 10k sq. ft.

Am I the only one that noticed this? Am I making this more complicated than it is?
I'm only trying to fully understand so I know how to apply it and how to charge for applying it. I like to work with exacts in order to establish routines.

If there is, indeed, a difference in the two I would have to figure out which would work best for my current set up because I can't afford to buy the same product in 2 different sizes just to get the RTU hose end sprayer that's already set at 1 oz. per gallon (or 1/2 oz. per gallon :confused: )

Fresh Cut
09-13-2010, 02:43 PM
Another thing... it seems as though some of their products contain the same ingredients. For instance, this is a quote from the Liquid fertilizer 16-4-8 for lawns page...
Seaweed, Humic Acids, and Molasses. What this means to you is that you are getting a soil improving fertilizer with added vitamins, bio-stimulants, and trace elements. Each product contains vitamins B-1, B-12, gibberellins, indoles, auxins as well as trace elements of boron, iron, zinc, cobalt, copper, manganese, molybdenum and sulfur.

And here is a quote from the Nature's Magic page...
Ok, I went to copy and paste and let's just say I'll paraphrase this part....." It has Kelp and Humic Acid, Gibberellic Acid, Blackstrap Molasses, Supplies over 30 micro-nutrients and vitamins, Unlocks and chelates major and minor nutrients, and some mo' stuff"

I'm not calling foul here, I'm a believer that all their stuff works else I wouldn't be investing in it. I'm just trying to save a few bucks at startup. Ya know.... I'm not running a $4 million operation here like that guy in Canada :rolleyes: .

Can I get away with maybe just 2 of the 4 products you recommended for startup, Andy? If not, what about just 3?

As it stands, I have all 4 in my shopping cart:

16-4-8 for Lawns, Gallon = 28.95
Bio Dethatcher RTU, Quart = 22.95
Nature's Magic, Gallon = 29.95
Aerify! Concentrate, Gallon= 89.95

Total = $167.80

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-13-2010, 05:23 PM
I think your over thinking it just a tad. My hose end sprayer is only in 1oz increments anyways so thats what I do. But you also have to do trial and error; its dependant also on how fast you do it. I have mine set on 10oz a gallon. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=1G1ACAW_ENUS398&q=gilmour+hose+end+sprayer&revid=1270010428&wrapid=tlif12844162807802&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=16866117649103034196&ei=YqOOTOTNHYqosAP3kJ3qCQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAw# I use this end sprayer. Just make sure you clean it out real wellafterwards it gums up alittle if you dont.
As for the NM and Fert for lawns. They may be close in ingredients but the results differ. The NM I think is what give you the instant results. Fert still does its job and it is quick release but it must do it in a different way cause the NM perks a lawn right up by the next morning. So I dont know more specifics I just barely picked this up myself at the beggining of the year. So i would wait for what pic and steve have to say.

Fresh Cut
09-15-2010, 12:25 PM
I think your over thinking it just a tad. My hose end sprayer is only in 1oz increments anyways so thats what I do. But you also have to do trial and error; its dependant also on how fast you do it. I have mine set on 10oz a gallon. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rlz=1G1ACAW_ENUS398&q=gilmour+hose+end+sprayer&revid=1270010428&wrapid=tlif12844162807802&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=16866117649103034196&ei=YqOOTOTNHYqosAP3kJ3qCQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEMQ8wIwAw# I use this end sprayer. Just make sure you clean it out real wellafterwards it gums up alittle if you dont.
As for the NM and Fert for lawns. They may be close in ingredients but the results differ. The NM I think is what give you the instant results. Fert still does its job and it is quick release but it must do it in a different way cause the NM perks a lawn right up by the next morning. So I dont know more specifics I just barely picked this up myself at the beggining of the year. So i would wait for what pic and steve have to say.

What do you mean by 1oz. increments? It only holds 1oz. at a time? or it only dilutes the concentrate in 1oz./gallon increments?
If it's the latter, then I may think about buying the one you linked to.

You set yours on 10oz. a gallon? So, for every 10oz. of product concentrate you add a gallon? Isn't that a bit rich?
From reading the Nature's Magic site, most of their products mix at a rate of 1, 2, or 3 oz per gallon. 4 oz. being the most per gallon.

Why do you use 10oz. per gallon? And what does that 10oz. consist of, product wise?

Fresh Cut
09-15-2010, 12:51 PM
I also wanted to ask you guys about what info you give your customers about the products.

Do you give them the names?

How do you describe how it works?

How do you describe how it compares to a weed & feed and 2-4D application?

I was thinking that having some little brochures to give them would help. I dunno, maybe that's a stretch.

If anyone can chime in I would really appreciate it. Even if you can just link me to where I can find the info, that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-15-2010, 12:59 PM
What do you mean by 1oz. increments? It only holds 1oz. at a time? or it only dilutes the concentrate in 1oz./gallon increments?
If it's the latter, then I may think about buying the one you linked to.

You set yours on 10oz. a gallon? So, for every 10oz. of product concentrate you add a gallon? Isn't that a bit rich?
From reading the Nature's Magic site, most of their products mix at a rate of 1, 2, or 3 oz per gallon. 4 oz. being the most per gallon.

Why do you use 10oz. per gallon? And what does that 10oz. consist of, product wise?

Oi your going to make me go over my math again.

to start it measures from I think 1 teaspoon to 10 tablespoons. And I mispoke on the 10oz its on the 10 tablespoons setting witch is 5oz a gallon. witch ya is still a little rich but its more about the pace of applying it then(Im impatient) then the actaul per gallon. Almost all homes here in AZ have sprinklers so you just hit auto after wards and have the customer hit auto again a few hrs later.

It holds close to 12 -15oz I think. And the mix is what the lable says just adjusted for each yard alittle different. My applications include NM, Fert for Lawns, BD, and Aerify. But it varries amounts just a tad base on condition and need.

Natures Lawn has a lawn care simplied manual that has some great tips here is the link to the hose end sprayer tips. http://lawncaresimplified.typepad.com/lawn_care_simplified_safe/2009/10/how-to-use-a-hoseend-sprayer.html

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-15-2010, 01:10 PM
I also wanted to ask you guys about what info you give your customers about the products.

Do you give them the names?

How do you describe how it works?

How do you describe how it compares to a weed & feed and 2-4D application?

I was thinking that having some little brochures to give them would help. I dunno, maybe that's a stretch.

If anyone can chime in I would really appreciate it. Even if you can just link me to where I can find the info, that would be great.

Thanks in advance.

%90 of our calls for it come from "organic lawn care or fertilizer" request. So all I explain is it has natural things in it like kelp, seaweed, molasses and such. I would like to do a flyer or brochure about it but havent gotten around to it. I do carry all the info of the products with me just in case(its just the stuff off the website). I did cherry pick a few things though.

The easiest way I can put it is read as much as you can on it and research alittle so that you sound confident and knowledgable on it and you should do fine.

Little off topic but the natures lawn stuff is a quick release witch helps it to grow naturally but we offer Milorganite as well for slow release applications. Look it up its kinda funny where it comes from.......

Fresh Cut
09-16-2010, 01:16 AM
Natures Lawn has a lawn care simplied manual that has some great tips here is the link to the hose end sprayer tips. http://lawncaresimplified.typepad.com/lawn_care_simplified_safe/2009/10/how-to-use-a-hoseend-sprayer.html

You know what that site just taught me?

That I need to get a setup with a tank, pump, and plenty of reel hose to go on my truck. Maybe something that's removeable.

Because I need to be in control of as many variables as possible to limit wasted time and wasted product.

The water pressure variable really drilled this point home because I've tried to apply some Weed B Gone by Ortho that came in a hose end bottle. My pressure was up high and I didn't think anything of it until the bottle was empty! "Doh! Gotta get another bottle tomorrow!"


Either get the tank with pump and hose setup or get a tank with boom put on my zero turn ASAP, because even the backpack sprayer doesn't seem practical on a 5000 sq. ft. yard.

mark123
09-16-2010, 08:02 AM
The reason I've shunned the use of hose-end sprayers in business is because you'd have to use the customer's water. It just seems a bit unprofessional.

Fresh Cut
09-16-2010, 11:22 AM
The reason I've shunned the use of hose-end sprayers in business is because you'd have to use the customer's water. It just seems a bit unprofessional.

Exactly!

That's what I was kinda getting at when I asked steve about it.

I'd rather have everything on my end that I need to get the job done and all the customer needs to do is PAY ME!

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-16-2010, 07:42 PM
You know what that site just taught me?

That I need to get a setup with a tank, pump, and plenty of reel hose to go on my truck. Maybe something that's removeable.

Because I need to be in control of as many variables as possible to limit wasted time and wasted product.

Completely agree about controlling all the variables but as I dont have all the business I would like in that area of the company. Its easiest to staf with what I have.

Also maybe its just me but you fill the tank based on the yard? Weather its pest, herb, or fert you mix there so your still using their water. So im a little confused on that, but hey maybe things are done differently in ur area...

mark123
09-16-2010, 08:58 PM
... Also maybe its just me but you fill the tank based on the yard? Weather its pest, herb, or fert you mix there so your still using their water. So im a little confused on that, but hey maybe things are done differently in ur area... Wait, why would you use their water for your tank?

Fresh Cut
09-16-2010, 11:58 PM
Wait, why would you use their water for your tank?

I'd like to know this as well.

Fresh Cut
09-17-2010, 12:02 AM
This is what I'm thinking of getting....

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/grd/1936598632.html

It would fit just right in the back of my 14' box truck. I'd prolly mount it on a pallet with wheels to maneuver it around better and strap it to my e-tracks inside the truck.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Lol? I know I havent been in the biz that long but I would guess its all universal... When I worked at Chemdry(carpet cleaning) we used their water to mix up the cleaning solution. We also used their toilet or clean out to dump the waist. When Ive worked for landscape companies we use their water to wash of the dust from the rocks and to clean other things so everything looks nice when we are done. We use their water to mix concrete. We use their water to water the fertilizer in. When I talk to pest control guys about their setup they use their water to mix up the sprays. Am I failing to see why its a problem to use "their" water when they are paying for a product. Through all of this you should and do I ask before doing any of the above sure.

Again as I stated earlier, maybe things are done differently where you are from... Also on a side note I wouldnt want to be lugging around 100+ gallons of solution all over the place anyways.

your thoughts.....

Fresh Cut
09-17-2010, 10:53 PM
Mark, you go first.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Mark, you go first.

lol... why?

mark123
09-18-2010, 08:07 PM
lol... why?

:D I don't know either but I carried 200 gallons of weed control for about 5 years at my last job. It's not a big deal.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-18-2010, 10:19 PM
:D I don't know either but I carried 200 gallons of weed control for about 5 years at my last job. It's not a big deal.

lol i knew i shouldnt have put that side note in there... I thought we were talking about the use of customer water?

mark123
09-19-2010, 12:42 AM
lol i knew i shouldnt have put that side note in there... I thought we were talking about the use of customer water?
Yeah, I'm talking about carrying 200 gallons with me instead of using the customer's water. It's not a huge deal to carry that much.

Fresh Cut
09-19-2010, 03:32 AM
lol... why?

:D I don't know either but I carried 200 gallons of weed control for about 5 years at my last job. It's not a big deal.

I said go first because I didn't wanna be the butthole, but..........

You're the contractor and you should provide everything that is needed for you to do your job.

Just saying.

Fresh Cut
09-19-2010, 03:45 AM
On another note...

I got my shipment of Nature's Magic, Aerify, Bio Dethatcher, & Fertilizer from UPS Friday. I ordered it Tuesday.

I opened the box tonight and mixed it in my Stihl SG-20 and applied it to my sister's yard (small).
Here's what I mixed:
Aerify 2oz./gal.
NM 4oz./gal.
Gluten-8 1 gal./3 gal

This mix came out to slightly more than 4 gallons, maybe even 4.5 gallons in my backpack sprayer after I rinsed all the measuring containers out and emptied 'em into the tank.

I applied it, and watered it in.


:mad: I expect to come home from church to a garden of eden! :mad:
If I don't, I'm gonna be :(



On another note, what is the shelf life of Gluten-8? I bought some earlier this year and they sent me a bad batch and sent me another gallon later. That second gallon didn't get used until tonight. It was in my garage the whole time. Does it go bad, and if so, after how long?


Gluten-8 stank! It smells like a PB&J sammich left in a lunchbox for 13 days thats been floating in sewage. Is it supposed to smell like that?
Does it have anything to do with how long it was in my garage?

mark123
09-19-2010, 07:26 AM
... It smells like a PB&J sammich left in a lunchbox for 13 days thats been floating in sewage. ...
Ew. I've heard the CG smells but not that bad.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-19-2010, 01:50 PM
I said go first because I didn't wanna be the butthole, but..........

You're the contractor and you should provide everything that is needed for you to do your job.

Just saying.

Well Im pretty sure the hundreds of companies are doing just fine out here in AZ.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-19-2010, 01:55 PM
Yeah, I'm talking about carrying 200 gallons with me instead of using the customer's water. It's not a huge deal to carry that much.

Im not saying its that big of a deal. i was just sayn its not something I wouldnt want to lug around all the time.

mark123
09-19-2010, 05:53 PM
Whoa. Pull the reins, sunshine.

Fresh Cut
09-19-2010, 09:08 PM
Well Im pretty sure the hundreds of companies are doing just fine out here in AZ.

"Hundreds of companies" that you want to stand apart from, correct?

Just saying. If you want your business to be taken seriously, you have to take it seriously first.


Dang, that didn't come out right, but I hope you get our point.

Fresh Cut
09-19-2010, 09:09 PM
On another note...

I got my shipment of Nature's Magic, Aerify, Bio Dethatcher, & Fertilizer from UPS Friday. I ordered it Tuesday.

I opened the box tonight and mixed it in my Stihl SG-20 and applied it to my sister's yard (small).
Here's what I mixed:
Aerify 2oz./gal.
NM 4oz./gal.
Gluten-8 1 gal./3 gal

This mix came out to slightly more than 4 gallons, maybe even 4.5 gallons in my backpack sprayer after I rinsed all the measuring containers out and emptied 'em into the tank.

I applied it, and watered it in.


:mad: I expect to come home from church to a garden of eden! :mad:
If I don't, I'm gonna be :(



On another note, what is the shelf life of Gluten-8? I bought some earlier this year and they sent me a bad batch and sent me another gallon later. That second gallon didn't get used until tonight. It was in my garage the whole time. Does it go bad, and if so, after how long?


Gluten-8 stank! It smells like a PB&J sammich left in a lunchbox for 13 days thats been floating in sewage. Is it supposed to smell like that?
Does it have anything to do with how long it was in my garage?

:mad: NO GARDEN OF EDEN! :mad:

I'll wait though *tapping foot*

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-19-2010, 10:57 PM
"Hundreds of companies" that you want to stand apart from, correct?

Just saying. If you want your business to be taken seriously, you have to take it seriously first.


Dang, that didn't come out right, but I hope you get our point.

Im not talking about just the landscape industry. I listed a few others its the same thing as using the customers power to run a paint sprayer or recharge a battery for a drill for a plumber doing a repipe.

And sure if the industry was heading that way where complaints were coming from even one person. Then sure it would make sence. But no I havent heard anyone say no you cant use our power or water to get the job done. Now if its not available thats another story.

As for the sunshine comment i think its funny that you think im worked up over this. This is the way business is done out here and thats ok. Maybe that complaint is a common one where you are from... I dont know. I mearly stated that I, as in me, would not want to lug around that much product.

Lastly Fresh Cut I usually notice results the next morning not the same day. So let us know how it works out.

cmpenn67
10-13-2010, 09:52 AM
Question about watering it in...If you use a hose end sprayer spraying it with the water do you still need to do it before a rain or have a customer water it in or is this adequate watering to water the product in? Also I saw that you mentioned something about chlorine? If I use my tap water here in Texas does it have chlorine in it? Or do I need to do something to get rid of the chlorine?

MountainViewGreenskeeper
10-13-2010, 09:33 PM
Question about watering it in...If you use a hose end sprayer spraying it with the water do you still need to do it before a rain or have a customer water it in or is this adequate watering to water the product in? Also I saw that you mentioned something about chlorine? If I use my tap water here in Texas does it have chlorine in it? Or do I need to do something to get rid of the chlorine?

Well it dont rain much here but we water it atleast once by hitting manual before we leave on the timmer. And tell the customer to do it once more later in the day. How often it actual gets done I do not know but I would say atleast once more. After using a hose end sprayer.

As for your water I have no idea.

swstout
10-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Well it dont rain much here but we water it atleast once by hitting manual before we leave on the timmer. And tell the customer to do it once more later in the day. How often it actual gets done I do not know but I would say atleast once more. After using a hose end sprayer.

As for your water I have no idea.

As for watering in, it depends on what you are applying. Nature’s Magic works as a foliar. It is absorbed directly into the leaves (blades). The bio-enhanced products (Aerify, and dethatcher) need to be watered in as they have biologicals that need to get into the soil.

I use a de-chlorinator I get from Lowe’s. It is designed for ponds and a little goes a long way. I figure 2 gallons water per 1,000 sq. ft. and add accordingly. If your doing 10,000 sq ft, add for 20 gallons.

Steve

cruzgardening
10-23-2010, 03:01 AM
I just finished reading the whole thread and well it seems like i might start looking into it.

I have a walk behind lawnmower its small compare to many of the machines have talked about in the forum, but i live in Los Angeles lots are small here.

anyways back to the topic, Does the NM work on cool weather grasses? also most of the homes i service are around 1-4k sqft would a backpack work on those?

thanks guys for the great information provided :)

Fresh Cut
03-04-2011, 11:30 PM
Ok, I have my supply of Nature's Magic, Aerify, Bio-Dethatcher, & fertilizer.

I wanna know about an organic pre-emergent.

Is Gluten-8 the best option? If not, then what?

If so, what kind of results should I expect using it on a lawn that hasn't been treated with anything and is full of weeds? Does it work on all or most broadleaf weeds?

What's the timeline for noticing progress from using Gluten-8?

tricountylawncare
03-07-2011, 07:07 PM
SWSTOUT, are you still using the Nature's Lawn products? I live down the road from you in goose creek and was looking at using their products. Just wondering if you and your customers are still happy with it.

Thanks




http://www.tricountylawncaresc.com

Fresh Cut
03-11-2011, 03:50 AM
bump.......

swstout
03-11-2011, 07:02 PM
I still recommend them.

For Centipede lawns, I have started adding liquid lawn sulfur. It lowers pH and frees up iron for the turf. Ideal pH for Centipede is <6.0. Also, most broad leaf weeds do poorly in soils with a pH < 6.8.

Steve

SWSTOUT, are you still using the Nature's Lawn products? I live down the road from you in goose creek and was looking at using their products. Just wondering if you and your customers are still happy with it.

Thanks





http://www.tricountylawncaresc.com

Ducke
03-13-2011, 08:44 AM
SWSTOUT are these product available in Canada ??
Here in Nova Scotia we are not allowed to use any Pesticides at all.
Even the Box Store can not sell them so we are trying anything to create new business.

Graham

swstout
03-13-2011, 10:49 PM
Picfraimer is in I believe Nova Scocia, and he uses them.

Steve

SECTLANDSCAPING
03-30-2011, 04:47 PM
after reading this monster thread, im thinking of using these products.

I do not currently use chemicals and have been bothered by the EPA before. So I'm going to research a little more before buying.

cruzgardening
03-30-2011, 11:38 PM
after reading this monster thread, im thinking of using these products.

I do not currently use chemicals and have been bothered by the EPA before. So I'm going to research a little more before buying.

i just bouth the Aerateplus i applied it to one of my costumers already they ahve St Agustine grass it rained so i did not have to soak the area with 1hr of water like some people suggested. Now i wait and see the results :) this costumer was one of the few that does not pay for additional services and he allowed me to use his grass as a pilot site :) will let u guys know some results in the comming weeks pictures will be posted also :)

Steve
03-31-2011, 11:09 AM
Oh very interesting! Looking forwards to your before and after pictures.

dustyns314
04-19-2011, 02:16 AM
Can anyone say how well the product works? Any photos available?

vovka86
04-19-2011, 11:17 PM
Cruzgardening can you give us any updates!!!

cruzgardening
04-20-2011, 12:05 AM
Cruzgardening can you give us any updates!!!

honestly i did not see any difference... kind of disappointed but i should try it on another one of my clients and see how it works since the other guy is rather old and im sure he is not watering like he should, the one im spraying this week has an automated sprinkler system!


let me give u updates on this one ill spray it on Thursday!

cruzgardening
04-20-2011, 12:06 AM
Can anyone say how well the product works? Any photos available?

ill have photos on thursday!

vovka86
08-19-2011, 07:43 PM
Hi cruzgardening

Any results after you sprayed, are you still using the product???

Liberty Landscaping LLC
08-21-2011, 06:33 PM
Hi Everyone.
I am seriously considering trying the All in one Dethatch, aerator, and fertalizer does anyone have expierence with this product? How did it turn out? I have a customer now that needs this service and was considering using it but wanted someone's opinion first. Thanks!

RAlawncare
12-29-2011, 01:21 PM
i am very intrested in this product but as many of you know im 14 and am not sure where to start. what sprayers to buy, etc

NorCalPropertyServices
01-21-2012, 12:07 AM
Bumping this old thread for any before and after pics... Thanks in advance

dpld
01-21-2012, 07:43 AM
the products you speak of sound really intresting steve, way to go.

do you have any links for the company that produces the products as well as any product labels.

or is the link in the post above the source?

thanks, dan.

jymie
01-21-2012, 03:46 PM
http://www.natureslawn.com/magic.php?gclid=CNDuua6w4a0CFUSo4AodR0eLQg

dpld
01-21-2012, 05:34 PM
http://www.natureslawn.com/magic.php?gclid=CNDuua6w4a0CFUSo4AodR0eLQg


thanks for the link. :)

Chaz
01-22-2012, 02:54 PM
it seems that the all in one is a relativity new product, I might go for that.

j.a.lawnervces
01-25-2012, 05:17 PM
i have a ? so i see that the mix is added to a gallon of water for every 1k sqft so does that mean that 1 gallon of water is used for every 1k sqft??? if not then how much water is used per 1k sqft

i live in a millitary town in tn where clay is everywhere and i am interested in using this product

mark123
01-25-2012, 05:21 PM
i have a ? so i see that the mix is added to a gallon of water for every 1k sqft so does that mean that 1 gallon of water is used for every 1k sqft??? if not then how much water is used per 1k sqft

i live in a millitary town in tn where clay is everywhere and i am interested in using this product

I think they require 2 gallons of water per 1000 sq ft.

hansenslawncare
01-25-2012, 11:02 PM
I am in South Carolina which is mostly sand and it works great here. The Nature's Lawn products actually build humus (the living part of the soil). Here most lawns have at best 3/4" humus. Nature's Magic, Aerify, and biological dethatcher gives new life to the humus layer and has remarkable results.

No license required100% safe

Steve

Hello Steve,

I'm pretty new to the lawn care business, but I've been thinking about expanding services to include fertilization, weed control, etc...

So this organic stuff that you're talking about, you're not required a fertilization license? What about treating for weeds, etc.? Is there a product for this too? Any license required for that?

Thanks for the help...I'm really interested in what you posted here...

mcgreen1
01-28-2012, 09:39 AM
I emailed the the company yesterday and asked them about any licensing or permit requirements for their products. They told me that you don't need any of them for any of their products. I'm still going do more research just to be on the safe side. Everything looks pretty good though. Hope that helps. If I find anything different out ill be sure to post it.

hansenslawncare
01-29-2012, 04:09 PM
I emailed the the company yesterday and asked them about any licensing or permit requirements for their products. They told me that you don't need any of them for any of their products. I'm still going do more research just to be on the safe side. Everything looks pretty good though. Hope that helps. If I find anything different out ill be sure to post it.

Alright thanks for the help. Also, do they have any crabgrass preventer, or weed spray product?

Thanks...

druda22
02-07-2012, 07:56 AM
Can you apply these products after you mow the lawn? Reason im asking is because, I think it would be a good marketing idea to offer the application with the lawn maintenance package, and just increase the weekly price a few dollars to cover the material costs. Yeah you might not make alot off of the application itself, but you will get alot of maintenance customers because your saving them money on fertilizing. Please Let me know..
Thanks

mark123
02-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Can you apply these products after you mow the lawn? Reason im asking is because, I think it would be a good marketing idea to offer the application with the lawn maintenance package, and just increase the weekly price a few dollars to cover the material costs. Yeah you might not make alot off of the application itself, but you will get alot of maintenance customers because your saving them money on fertilizing. Please Let me know..
Thanks

On the site they have labeling for each product along with application instructions.

Organic
02-07-2012, 03:46 PM
I emailed the the company yesterday and asked them about any licensing or permit requirements for their products. They told me that you don't need any of them for any of their products. I'm still going do more research just to be on the safe side. Everything looks pretty good though. Hope that helps. If I find anything different out ill be sure to

You need a license, organic or not when you apply anything on a lawn for profit this includes a weed and feed bag from box stores too.

JeffK26
02-07-2012, 09:52 PM
You need a license, organic or not when you apply anything on a lawn for profit this includes a weed and feed bag from box stores too.

Certain locations don't require it.

Check with your local and state for the answer to this question. Some guy on the forum from a totally different location cannot tell you what is right in your location. And even the manufacturer doesn't know. Nature's Lawn, Scott's, Tru Green, NONE of them keep up with the codes and requirements in YOUR area. The only way to know is to ask an official in your city, in your town or your state.

Some locations don't even require a license for pesticides. it is getting rare, but it is true.

mcgreen1
02-08-2012, 01:14 PM
I emailed the dept. Of agriculture here in illinois. They told me that if a product is epa exempt then you don't need an applicators license. I am still going to find and call whom ever it is that I need to talk to about this particular product.

52BeltDrive
03-19-2012, 03:12 PM
Can anyone say how well the product works? Any photos available?

Seriously! Anyone?

Claims and sales pitch don't do much for me. I've already got my license and I know my chemicals work as advertised and guaranteed. I'd never give up my license or chemical use completely but I do have an interest in these organic compounds. These would be a no brainer to offer as an alternative but the only way I could sell this line would be to try it for an entire season on my own lawn and perhaps a friend or relative's. I'm actually thinking of a side by side split down the middle approach to compare conventional products to the organic. Love the concept but I can't sell something I don't personally believe in. Too much like buying a used car from a dealership. The salesman says it's great, he wants your money...

Anyone have some B & A pics of the dethatcher product and results? I could sell that to almost every homeowner I meet (if it works).

mark123
03-19-2012, 04:51 PM
Does it help a lawn? It sure does. Does it work as well as the products I'm using now? Not even close.

I tried them on my own lawn last year and they did keep my lawn green but did nothing for the weeds. I still had to use my 2-4,d/Dicamba/MCPA. Did the bio-dethatcher work? No idea. The thatch layer in my lawn is rather light so maybe it did help a bit but I did no measurements or comparisons.

If I HAD to use organics because of some ordinance or law then I'd surely look into Nature's Lawn.

52BeltDrive
03-19-2012, 05:49 PM
Does it help a lawn? It sure does. Does it work as well as the products I'm using now? Not even close.

I tried them on my own lawn last year and they did keep my lawn green but did nothing for the weeds. I still had to use my 2-4,d/Dicamba/MCPA. Did the bio-dethatcher work? No idea. The thatch layer in my lawn is rather light so maybe it did help a bit but I did no measurements or comparisons.

If I HAD to use organics because of some ordinance or law then I'd surely look into Nature's Lawn.

Thanks Mark.

I would like to at least try these and I think I've got just the place. My Mom bought an older house last year with a decent little yard (yard, not lawn**maybe 60% grass at best**). Should be an ideal testing ground with a minimal investment. The website had nice testemonials but again I'm hesitant to sell a product that I haven't tried. It would be nice to see other folk's results but it's not really cost prohibitive to try on my own.

:)

Organic
03-20-2012, 10:42 AM
There are alot of organic products on the market. The purpose of the products are to increase and support microbial activity. they also help chelate other products, so when you apply anything on the lawn you only need in some cases only 50% of product to get the same as 100%.thus reducing p and k environmental impact.
As for making things green, urea a synthetic organic is always found in products or more expensive ones, amino acids
As in weed killing the only organic product is corn gluten a pre emergent. But the timing has to be perfect. If you need any other info pm me