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realhuntin
01-13-2008, 01:32 PM
Part 2 of 4 Hardscapes
How to; get started in this service. Small patios and walk ways.

Design
This is the part that may take some time spent with the customer to find out what they have in mind. This will help you in designing a project that will make them at AWE.

These are normally easy jobs. Starting off small10’x 20’or under 200 sq. ft. These projects will keep you busy or shouldn’t last more than 3-5 days, (weather permitting) some faster than others. *The going rate for a patio project with minor demo is $21-$25 per sq ft. average. Some may be higher depending on the tear out, don’t lowball just to get the job.

ex. Completed a driveway 340 sq. ft. of Req. & Sq. Pavers; demo of existing concrete, 1.75 days 4 men labor (72 man hours = 4 x 18 hrs x $35) $2,520.00, materials $2,435.00, dumping fees/cost of removed concrete $485.00. Total for the job was $7,820.00. Profit for 2 day job $2,380.00. Note we have our own skid steers, 1 ton dump, quick cut saw & plate compactor. So there are no rental fees for equipment used. This cost should be figured in to the job at a higher rate than you are charged so you can have some return on the rental fees. If you own your equipment you should be charging rental fees for the use of it at the going rate for said equipment.

Once you have agreed on type, style and color of the pavers to be used the next step is tools needed and demo of existing decks, concrete or other. Always order all pavers needed at the same time. This is a must you want to do this so you can get pavers from the same run, meaning the colors will match better. Before delivery of materials (pavers) to the project sight you should have all demo completed and sight cleaned up ready to begin.

Installation
Follow these steps: This is a helpful site for the How To.

http://pavestone.com/retail/paver-install.html

Hope this helps on your successful venture into Hardscapes!

Good Luck Tim

Steve
01-13-2008, 05:14 PM
Hi Tim,

Great post! This is a service you could sell as an upsell to your current customer base as well, is that right?

Should lawn care operators be actively promoting these services to their current customer base?

musclecarboy
01-17-2008, 09:05 PM
Great post Tim! I'm getting into hardscaping this year and was looking for something like this (I needed the pricing info http://www.gophergraphics.com/forum/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). I can't wait for the next 2 parts!!

Steve
01-17-2008, 10:46 PM
Hi Tom,

Welcome to our forum. How did you come up with your forum name? Are you into muscle cars? Do you have any pics you could share with us?

realhuntin
01-17-2008, 11:29 PM
Quote[/b] (Team Gopher @ Jan. 13 2008,5:14)]Hi Tim,

Great post! This is a service you could sell as an upsell to your current customer base as well, is that right?

Should lawn care operators be actively promoting these services to their current customer base?
Yes Yes and Yes. Lco's that feel this is something they want to do then they should be looking for as many of these type jobs as the have customers, incorp into the landscaping renovations what ever the case but yes it should be a easy upsell.

realhuntin
01-17-2008, 11:31 PM
Quote[/b] (musclecarboy @ Jan. 17 2008,9:05)]Great post Tim! *I'm getting into hardscaping this year and was looking for something like this (I needed the pricing info http://www.gophergraphics.com/forum/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). *I can't wait for the next 2 parts!!
Hi Tony and Thanks

Part 3 will be ready next week, It is a must read, and part 4 will have estimating and pricing. Stay tuned.

musclecarboy
01-19-2008, 12:27 PM
Quote[/b] (realhuntin @ Jan. 17 2008,11:31)]Quote[/b] (musclecarboy @ Jan. 17 2008,9:05)]Great post Tim! *I'm getting into hardscaping this year and was looking for something like this (I needed the pricing info http://www.gophergraphics.com/forum/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ). *I can't wait for the next 2 parts!!
Hi Tony and Thanks

Part 3 will be ready next week, It is a must read, and part 4 will have estimating and pricing. Stay tuned.
Thats great Tim! I can't wait to read them! I'm really excited for this year and the hardscaping I'm going to do.

musclecarboy
02-17-2008, 10:09 AM
Tim, how are the updates coming along? I can't wait to see them http://www.gophergraphics.com/forum/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

kc2006
02-17-2008, 11:40 AM
I'm having an issue with the math, seems fuzzy to me.

Where is the cost of equipment figured in? I see cost to remove concrete, is that the skid and truck? What about han tools, insurances, any license fee's, your advertising costs, workers comp, and any payroll related costs come into play?

Is the $35 per man hour an expense or is that what your charging the customer? $35 per man hour seems low to be charging the customer for demo work/paver work, yet seems high to be just cost, unless your paying your guys $20 an hour?

Just wondering.

realhuntin
09-03-2008, 12:05 AM
I'm having an issue with the math, seems fuzzy to me.

Where is the cost of equipment figured in? I see cost to remove concrete, is that the skid and truck? What about han tools, insurances, any license fee's, your advertising costs, workers comp, and any payroll related costs come into play?

Is the $35 per man hour an expense or is that what your charging the customer? $35 per man hour seems low to be charging the customer for demo work/paver work, yet seems high to be just cost, unless your paying your guys $20 an hour?

Just wondering.

Ok now your getting into Business 101. Advert, Lic, Ins, WC, and other cost are all OVERHEAD and is figured into your man hour cost. ex, you pay a man 10per hr. he/she will cost you 13 per hr just in your contributions to tax's and unemployment, then you add the overhead of each of other expenses by the time your finished the total cost per man hour is about 20-25 so that why you charge 35-40 per man per man hour.

I don't know any other way to make it more simplified in showing a breakdown of how I bid jobs like this. I own my equipment (no bank payments) Please don't think I bragging because I'm not but you need to charge for equipment usage on every job like this, I do and it was built to the demo section. ex If you have to rent it then charge 450 a day over what the rental fees are and you can make some money from the equipment. take in consideration that when you do this the cost per sq ft will increase and this may take you out of the game fast so my advice is to NOT to forget and CHARGE for this and justify your higher sq ft price by SELLING quality work. NOTE; there are Co's out there doing jobs like this for $10-12 per sq ft DON't be one of those Co's. I am normally the highest bidding Co on most jobs. I sell and Install top quality hardscapes.

Yes I pay my men very well for the industry standards, and I expect nothing less than perfection in return. No $35 per hour per man is not low most landscape co's that do this type of work charge anywhere from $28 - 37 per man hour.

I hope this has been helpful and my appologizes for the delay in this reply post, this season has been a very eventful season from weather to on the job injuries to weather to just plain being busy oh did I mention weather. Have a good one and Good Luck Tim

Steve
09-03-2008, 06:03 AM
I'm not but you need to charge for equipment usage on every job like this, I do and it was built to the demo section. ex If you have to rent it then charge 450 a day over what the rental fees are and you can make some money from the equipment.

Tim this is really interesting and I think this is where a lot of business owners go wrong. I think the tough part is how do you figure out how much more you need to be charging if you are renting equipment.

Say for instance if you have to rent A saw to cut the blocks or a Toro Dingo?

Is there any type of formula a lawn care business owner should use say if their equipment rentals is costing them $300 a day or whatever the fee is?