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View Full Version : Bad boy MX series or toro Titan?


cpenn481
10-15-2012, 02:04 PM
So I'm new to all this and am looking into buying a good mid to high end residential mower. My mind isn't ready to fork out the 8-10 grand for a commercial ztr just yet. Any way I demoed a Bad Boy MX4200 today and would really like to look at a Toro Titan. I will say the Bad boy was surely a bad boy! I really liked the construction of it. They had a cub cadet high end residential sitting next to it and it wasn't anywhere near as solidly built. Anyway any info you guys can provide will be greatly appreciated. I did see Cheesee's video last night of him cutting a lawn with his Timecutter. I would be really interested in knowing how well that machine has held up to the abuse of a lawn care business as well. Thanks again guys.

LawnBoy0311
10-15-2012, 02:51 PM
I have a timecutter too. I was in the same boat you are...it made sense money wise to spend a few grand than shell out that kind of money for a commercial ztr. I also work a full time job, so it was more so testing the waters before jumping in...because my full time job dictates when I can cut.

When I bought my mower, it had a 3 year warranty. It says its void after commercial use...just make friends with the dealer...mine knows what I really do with it. I've hit some nasty stuff with it, but its held out just fine. The deck is a thin steel, just be mindful of that. I bought it back in June and its already paid for itself. I have the 42", and its perfect for what I use it for. The only thing I don't like is the front wheels squeak like crazy. Enough to give you one heck of a headache. I just bought a grease gun and keep it lubed up and it works fine.

Some might call me a moron for buying a residential mower, but I wanted something on the cheaper side, and new. I'd rather spend the cash buying new than some other companies beat up mower with high hours and constant repairs. If mine made it through next year, or even the year after, I'd say it was well worth it. But ask me then and I'll let you know!

cpenn481
10-15-2012, 05:02 PM
Thanks for the info Lawn boy. out of curiosity how many hours you think you put on it in a week? Also what would you say the averagew size yard you cut with it is? I find it interesting that you say it has paid for itself already. what did you use before? I noticed to my amazement while looking at the photo section how many folks were using that mower. Perhaps I dont need to count it out just yet.

LawnBoy0311
10-15-2012, 06:17 PM
Thanks for the info Lawn boy. out of curiosity how many hours you think you put on it in a week? Also what would you say the averagew size yard you cut with it is? I find it interesting that you say it has paid for itself already. what did you use before? I noticed to my amazement while looking at the photo section how many folks were using that mower. Perhaps I dont need to count it out just yet.

Hours a week I'd have to say about 10 to 15. The largest I cut is 1 1/2 acres, the average is a little less than a 1/3 acre. Before that, I used a toro self prop. mower. I was doing mostly townhouses, then bought the bigger mower when I got bigger houses. It's paid for itself because the average yard cost for my customers is $57, and some customers are a bit on the lower side. For now, this mower has done fine, and gives me the chance to save up for a commercial ztr.

I wouldn't count out timecutters just yet. I had no idea how many others on here had them, I read the reviews before I bought it. I heard nothing but good things about them.

cpenn481
10-15-2012, 06:46 PM
That's great info, especially on the pricing. Our area is mostly rural and suburban. average rural yard is 2-3 acres most suburb yards here are 1/2 to an full acre leaning more towards the full acre side of things. My mom and dad live out in Houston and their house is on a postage stamp 1/4 acre and house and garage take up most of that. They pay 35 a week for theirs.

LawnBoy0311
10-15-2012, 07:05 PM
Every area is so different, thats why it gets me when people ask how much any of us would quote. It would be impossible to tell. The cost of living in my area is very high (7th in the country). Where as maybe in yours it could be lower, or higher!

This year has been nuts seeing all the new companies come and go. I see a lot on craigslist too...guys trying to start out, but bought the biggest, best equipment they could and realized they couldn't make payments. In fact, I just found a repo auction today on a lawncare owner.

Keep your costs low and buy more equipment as you grow.

cpenn481
10-15-2012, 07:36 PM
Yea I imagine the cost of living where I am is fairly low compared to most. That said like everywhere else thats relative. My moms house in Houston is alot nicer than mine but she gave 30 grand less for it. Down here its a tough balance of what you can charge as to what the market can stand.

cpenn481
01-25-2013, 08:11 AM
Hours a week I'd have to say about 10 to 15. The largest I cut is 1 1/2 acres, the average is a little less than a 1/3 acre. Before that, I used a toro self prop. mower. I was doing mostly townhouses, then bought the bigger mower when I got bigger houses. It's paid for itself because the average yard cost for my customers is $57, and some customers are a bit on the lower side. For now, this mower has done fine, and gives me the chance to save up for a commercial ztr.

I wouldn't count out timecutters just yet. I had no idea how many others on here had them, I read the reviews before I bought it. I heard nothing but good things about them.

Ok Mr lawnboy after much study and agonizing I finally broke down and bought the toro timecutter ss5000 yesterday. Going to pick it up this am. I really wanted the badboy mx because of its welded deck but found I would have a hard time getting it serviced in my area. I angled toward the toro 4235 but then at the store it was sitting next to the 5000 and the difference in beefyness was obvious. We dont have many gates to get through sso the bigger deck isnt really a problem just yet. We have a old snapper rider for the few back yards with gate access and those yards are all small anyway. The hope is it will last us two or three years till we see where this project leads. Like you I didnt realize until I got to really paying attention just how many folks were using timecutters. I think that speaks volumes about the machine by itself. Thanks for the input and wish us luck.

LawnBoy0311
01-25-2013, 09:10 AM
Congrats on the new purchase!!!! That bigger deck will do numbers for you. I wanted the bigger deck, but a lot of my yards have fences where I can just barely squeak by.


My buddy, whos a mechanic, came over and went overmy mower after this past year. He says it held up really well for what I was using it for. He was pretty impressed with it for being a residential mower.

Let me know what you think and good luck!

Steve
01-25-2013, 11:23 AM
Congratulations on your new purchase! I look forwards to hearing your review.

cpenn481
01-25-2013, 07:14 PM
Thanks guys. Weather here wasn't the best today, cold with a little icey stuff falling late in the day but we did get it unloaded and an initial testing of sorts. First impressions are this will be a fine machine. Started right up even in the cold. One control handle is a little looser than the other so it travels farther but the machine tracks straight at full throw so im sure thats a minor adjustment. Ran it through some heavy leaves and weeds and it didn't seem to care it just mowed it all up. Controls were easy to get used to and intuitive. We really like the smart speed feature. We live in Briggs country ( plant is not far away) so have always used briggs engine so the Kawi is new to us and so far we like it, starts easily, seems to have plenty of power and is relatively quiet. Overall our first impressions are we are very pleased. I'll try to remember to post an updated review after we have had some time to put it through it paces for a while.:cool::cool:

cpenn481
04-13-2013, 05:11 PM
Latest update after using the machine a fair amount. Spring has finally broke full swing. We are enjoying the great weather for the Masters Golf Tourney this week. We work that general area. Been mowing fairly steady with the machine for about a month now and picking up speed so I feel we have used it enough to give it a good reviewing. My cousin has an Exmark and a Gravely and this machine is providing a better looking cut than both his commercial machines. The cut quality is awesome and our customers are extremely please with it. Its working around 25 hours a week right now and so far absolutely no mechanical issues at all. You do have to be careful making tight turns to avoid lawn damage but we have learned how to avoid that so it really isn't a problem for us. The machine has great power and we really really love the smart speed feature. It works great around tight objects and shrubs. So far we have nothing negative to say at all. We love it.

SNethercutt
04-13-2013, 07:18 PM
I'm sorry but I do not believe for a moment that a time cutter provides a better cut than any commercial mower. Yes I have one, a 2010 model.

It could outperform an old worn out commercial mower but when comparing apples to apples, new to new there is no way.

The time cutter in higher grass will require being mowed over 3 to 4 times, compares to what a commercial mower can do.

Also, the air flow and lift of a welded deck vs. Stamped deck is astronomical.

Just my .02 it will last you for a while. The time cutter we have has upwards of 400 hrs but like I said no comparison to a bad boy or a gravely.

SECTLANDSCAPING
04-13-2013, 07:44 PM
I'm sorry but I do not believe for a moment that a time cutter provides a better cut than any commercial mower. Yes I have one, a 2010 model.

It could outperform an old worn out commercial mower but when comparing apples to apples, new to new there is no way.

The time cutter in higher grass will require being mowed over 3 to 4 times, compares to what a commercial mower can do.

Also, the air flow and lift of a welded deck vs. Stamped deck is astronomical.

Just my .02 it will last you for a while. The time cutter we have has upwards of 400 hrs but like I said no comparison to a bad boy or a gravely.
This is what happens when someone owns something.


As far as cut quality new spindles, sharp balanced blades, at a slow speed will give you a nice cut but comparing that to a commercial machine traveling at 3xs the speed is ridiculous. I mow at 9-12 mph and every blade is cut at that speed. A commercial mower with 1500 hours will outperform a timecutter fresh from homedepot. I cant see this mower outperforming any mower built in the last 15 years. I did test drive a few of these before too. It was a joke. Its not even in the same league as a walk behind.

cpenn481
04-13-2013, 07:53 PM
Don't get me wrong I am in no way suggesting it is a better all around mower than those commercial mowers but I am saying from a quality of cut stand point, which means how good it looks after being cut, it is our opinion it is giving a better cut than my cousins 2 commercial mowers. I will add we have had it in some pretty tall bermuda grass in a hay field just for kicks and was pretty impressed with what it did there but thats it for tall thick grass. I'm sure it wont hold up as long as those commercial brands but given the customer comments we have recieved about their yards I can tell you when it gets replaced it will be with a toro, but of commercial type. You are free to disagree but our yards are looking better than yards my cousin cuts. Some are actually next to each other. Its not as fast, probably wont last but does a dang fine job.

B&B Lawn Services
04-13-2013, 09:33 PM
You did the right thing. I have been doing lawn service, tree service and pressure washing for 5 years. Started out with my own 2001 Time cutter, 52" deck that used to just mow my own yard. For 5 years, Iv'e used it commercially. Has no hour meter. I estimate it has 900 + hours on it. I take very good care of it, and it has given me great service. The only major expense I've had was to replace carburator, and rebuild the 3 spindles. I will probably purchase a commercial 60" Toro at the end of this season.

cpenn481
04-13-2013, 10:42 PM
You did the right thing. I have been doing lawn service, tree service and pressure washing for 5 years. Started out with my own 2001 Time cutter, 52" deck that used to just mow my own yard. For 5 years, Iv'e used it commercially. Has no hour meter. I estimate it has 900 + hours on it. I take very good care of it, and it has given me great service. The only major expense I've had was to replace carburator, and rebuild the 3 spindles. I will probably purchase a commercial 60" Toro at the end of this season.

Thanks for the positive input. There are those in the world that will always believe that there is no way a residential will offer as good a cut as a commercial unit but from what I have seen that just isn't true in all cases. Maybe be true in some but not all. When I was looking I really liked the Bad Boy Mx for its welded deck and the cooling fans on the hydro's but it came down to being able to get it serviced. We are really happy and until it proves us wrong we are sold on it. So much so I am looking at the new 30 inch recycler Toro has. Unlike alot of areas most of our lawns are measured in acres and not square feet but we do have a few that a big mower just isn't very practical on. You know the ones that it takes longer to unload the beast than it does to cut the yard. For Those I think the 30 inch will do a nice job. I am now a loyal Toro fan.

LawnBoy0311
04-14-2013, 08:10 AM
I'm sorry but I do not believe for a moment that a time cutter provides a better cut than any commercial mower. Yes I have one, a 2010 model.

It could outperform an old worn out commercial mower but when comparing apples to apples, new to new there is no way.

The time cutter in higher grass will require being mowed over 3 to 4 times, compares to what a commercial mower can do.

Also, the air flow and lift of a welded deck vs. Stamped deck is astronomical.

Just my .02 it will last you for a while. The time cutter we have has upwards of 400 hrs but like I said no comparison to a bad boy or a gravely.

I think the 2010 models had a lot of problems with them. From what I was reading it was with the deck. I have a 2012 and this thing does a real nice job. A local guy in my area uses an old bobcat 36" WB and mine cuts a lot better than his. At full speed it'll take out every blade of grass.

BUT, its no commercial machine. And who knows how long it will last till it bites the dust. When it does go to lawnmower heaven, I'll buy a commercial Toro.

SNethercutt
04-14-2013, 01:17 PM
There are lot of things that play into the cut quality.

Blades
Belts
Grass Conditions
Tire pressure
Spindles

So a new toro time cutter vs. Bob cat with wore out blades and spindles and an operator that runs over sticks and doesn't care about his Bob cat, yes you will probably leave a better cut. I agree 100%

But get two new mowers, a time cutter and a commercial mower and now the same type of grass with them. Put 400 hrs on each with same service schedule and see which one will cut better.

If your mowing grass short, yes a time cutter will do fine, but when it comes to st. Augustine and mowing and proper heights, a time cutter doesn't have adequate FPM blade speed to lift the grass to cut it at 3 to 3.5 inches. It does a lot of swirling.

cpenn481
04-15-2013, 09:51 AM
I wish we had the St.Augustine problem here its such a pretty grass buT we dont have any yards with it. There are some around but they are few and far in between. Mostly what we see around here is centipede, bermuda and bahaya. bahay is death to lawn mower blades. It does look good when cut but a week later it will lok like crap again. We also dont have Bobcat mowers. It occurs to me that with the slower speed of the timecutter the slower blade speed may not have to be as fast as it would be on a faster commercial mower. The Timecutter blades turn I think at around 11500 fps where as a good commercial mower spins at around 13500. If The timecutter was traveling at the same speed as a commercial mower it would need faster blades to do the same job. If you calculate the ground speed versus blade speed of both and compare you will find them to be comparable. Some of the slower commercial units like the walk behinds will actually show betterr numbers than most ztr's. I will add that when we were looking at mowers we actually liked the construction of the bad boy better because it had fans on the hydro units plus even the residential versions had welded decks but no one around here serviced them or carried parts so we chose the toro. The 24 hp kawasaki motor was also a deciding factor. The bad boy had a 20 hp kohler. Now all that said none of it amounts to a hill of beans. The only thing that really matters is that we really really like the machine we bought. If not we would be saying how crappy it is.

cutnuplawnservice
05-20-2013, 07:29 PM
I love my Bad Boy :D

jrayb39667
05-20-2013, 07:40 PM
. The Timecutter blades turn I think at around 11500 fps where as a good commercial mower spins at around 13500.

My Hustler FasTrak blade FPS is 18,100 and my mower only does 8MPH top speed.