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CHEESE2009
02-25-2012, 09:49 PM
Why the heck are none of you charging for the full season of winter, and instead charging per outing?

Is it because snow isn't something that occurs often in your area?

:confused:

mark123
02-25-2012, 09:54 PM
Why the heck are none of you charging for the full season of winter, and instead charging per outing? ...
The market doesn't bear such a concept around here. You can contract with a local HOA for a full season but those are all locked down by the current contract holders. I haven't made a single dollar from snow removal this season but that's not really a big deal.

CHEESE2009
02-25-2012, 09:56 PM
The market doesn't bear such a concept around here. You can contract with a local HOA for a full season but those are all locked down by the current contract holders. I haven't made a single dollar from snow removal this season but that's not really a big deal.

That's terrible!

It's been such a stupid winter, hopefully over time winter will be a thing of the past and it'll be summer for the rest of our lives... lol

I'm young, but I'm getting too old for this white sh^t.

willshome
02-25-2012, 10:00 PM
I think after this year it will be hard to get real money for whole season snow removal around here and last year you would have been killed doing work for free (it was snowing everyother day)

mark123
02-25-2012, 10:04 PM
That's terrible! ...
Nah, it's alright. It did snow more than 1" one time but it was 3 days after I had my hernia surgery. I was not about to tear my belly open for a few dollars. A few weeks later I got the itch and walked my snow blower over the " of snow that showed up. The snow blower wouldn't even throw such a small amount.

$0. I'm eagerly awaiting the spring.

Hedgemaster
02-25-2012, 11:18 PM
I'm only an hour or so south of Mark and I've only been out on two days this winter. 4 or 5 driveways - that's it.


People would be chasing me with torches and pitchforks demanding a refund if I had charged them a flat rate for snow removal.


"Just come over if we have more than 3 or 4 inches" is what most people say.

Where I'm located, snow is hit or miss - sometimes we get enough to shovel, sometimes we get hit with a foot or more at a time, and sometimes we don't get much at all.

bruces
02-26-2012, 11:58 AM
I usually try to have a 50-50 mix of per push and anal customers .About 13 years ago ,we had virtually no snow one winter ,100% of the anal residential customers booked the next year on a per push basis ,and we got hit with a lot of small snowfalls so they actually ended up paying more .Anyways ,when you do a small shopping mall lot for $340,000.00 per year ,and it only snows once or twice ,theres awesome cash to be made .If you under estimate the number of snowfalls on the same property,you could be standing on the corner of the street in your sunday best ,with a tin cup in hand .

mark123
02-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Anal customers? :confused:

Hedgemaster
02-26-2012, 04:31 PM
Anal customers? :confused:


I have a few of those.

I leave their lawns looking FABULOUS.




:D

Ducke
02-26-2012, 06:01 PM
My jobs are some of my lawn customers
I'm not out to make a killing just to give me some spending cash.
They are just seniors so they like the pay as you go basis.

Steve
02-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Why the heck are none of you charging for the full season of winter, and instead charging per outing?

Scott,

Being that you are north of a lot of members on here, do you find that your market differs from theirs where it's more common to charge for a full season vs per outing?

Is one way better than the other up there when it comes to profiting over the winter months?

CHEESE2009
02-27-2012, 03:12 PM
Scott,

Being that you are north of a lot of members on here, do you find that your market differs from theirs where it's more common to charge for a full season vs per outing?

Is one way better than the other up there when it comes to profiting over the winter months?


It's actually very interesting.

From what I'm noticing, companies in my area are more about obtaining a lot of clients and offering standard prices for full season work. I suppose the strength of these companies and myself rely on massive clientele.

Others in the world seem to charge a different price per individual client. In theory I can understand why this may make sense, but the problem is not being able guarantee stable income.

Sure even those who charge for the complete season might get screwed over if it snows a lot. In my opinion, it's better to take a chance with losing the money you make, then to never make money at all when it comes to snow removal.

Also, some companies (rare) often charge more if the amount of snowfall per season increases. These companies often put the amount of snow expected in their contracts, and if it snows more then they had anticipated, they can send another invoice. :D

-

I'd like to continue this discussion, maybe see what all of you think?

dpld
02-27-2012, 03:25 PM
my area is too unpredictable, last year we had 56 inches of snow and this year we had 4 inches.

Hedgemaster
02-27-2012, 03:27 PM
It really would depend on the location.
If you're in an area where snow is a given, then it's not going to be difficult to charge a flat rate, as both you and the client KNOW that snow is inevitable.


If someone walked up to my door and offered to keep my walk and driveway clear all winter for just $200, I'd slam the door in his face.
I'm not paying for services not performed and there's no way to know what snowfall amounts we will actually get.

mark123
02-27-2012, 03:30 PM
... If someone walked up to my door and offered to keep my walk and driveway clear all winter for just $200, I'd slam the door in his face. ... Same here. It feels like gambling to me.

CHEESE2009
02-27-2012, 03:44 PM
Well considering it's been a very lousy winter, I'm trying to figure out how different it has been for everyone out there?

I have already been out more than 15 or so times, and I find this amount to be a lot lower than usual.

How about you guys, how many times have you been out give or take?

mark123
02-27-2012, 07:41 PM
Zero. Exactly. :)

willshome
02-27-2012, 08:39 PM
two "storms" each under 4" and most sign up after the first big storm
half my jobs are "call as needed" and no one calls for 4" of snow.

BTW 4 inches = 10.16 centimeters

CHEESE2009
02-27-2012, 09:35 PM
:(

I'm not getting a break...

I basically had one day of rest from being out, I have to go out TONIGHT because of 15cm AGAIN... and now this...

http://www.gopherforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4931&stc=1&d=1330396902

fieroboi
02-27-2012, 09:40 PM
I've missed being on here for a while, but this topic is interesting.

I'm running a two man crew plus myself. We are currently looking after approximately 70 yards. This year has been less snowfall than normal averages until this last weekend (over a foot in one day). It took us two days to get it all cleared out, which I personally think is really good considering the amount we got.

Anyway, getting to your topic Scott; we charge a monthly fee no matter how many times we have to be there. Last year it almost killed me physically, this year its been different. Its a real balancing act, client volume vs manpower. I like that we charge a monthly fee (or snow removal flat charge), I know what comes in every month and with all my employees being on a salary, I also know what is going out every month. Not too mention, if I paid my guys by the hour, they'd have starved this season, and probably would have gone elsewhere to make money.

I'm not interested in continual employee training, nor am I interested in client turnaround. 99% of my clients are flat seasonal charge, with the exception of a few that pay per time. If you want to move forward, you got to know whats coming in every month, something thats very difficult to do with per time basis. Course, I understand that doesn't work in areas of lower snowfall.


Lloyd
Blue's Yard FX
Camrose, Alberta, Canada

CHEESE2009
02-27-2012, 10:46 PM
Lloyd
Blue's Yard FX
Camrose, Alberta, Canada

It's great to see you back here! Wow, it's been awhile!

Great post too, couldn't have said it better myself.

CHEESE2009
02-27-2012, 11:36 PM
... I should have gone to work a few hours ago...

I'm about ready for bed.. lol... crap..

:(

Not sure what I'm going to do. We are expecting more snow, and it's just a complete pain in the arse never being able to finish and get a good nights rest, rest where your aches and pains heal.

CS-LawnService
02-28-2012, 05:24 AM
been out once this year and that was in Oct. Tempting to sell the plow truck and use the money for new lawn equipment

bruces
02-28-2012, 10:28 AM
It sounds to me like cheese would of done just fine with a per push arrangement .With an anal contract ,the more times he goes to work,the less money he makes .He also cant just tell his "best" customers to go jump in the lake when they bother him ,check his other recent threads ,he has some "wonderfull" customers but is married to them for the entire season .They are called anal customers ,what else would anybody call the guy that wants cheese to salt his yard daily and calls him repeatedly to ask if he is going to show up .
Now ,if the cheesemeister did the shovelling per snowfall ,he has gone out 15 times already this season with more to come ,and when the anal dude called him repeatedly ,cheese himself could of ended it right then and there and went back to sleep on his couch .It sounds like he has had enough snow events to have eaten well all winter .

CHEESE2009
03-01-2012, 05:36 AM
The income I receive for the entire season for walkways is approx $10,680.46. (as a sub contractor)

I personally don't keep track of my hours, but my assistant just got back to me with his. My assistant says he's worked a total of 84 hours which I actually thought to be pretty low surprisingly. Each outing takes about 12 hours to complete.

84hrs divided by 12 = 7 total outings.

I spend about $50 on gas per outing, = - $350.

I'm sure I have personally been out more than 7 times, most likely without my assistant.