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element009
09-25-2011, 11:08 AM
So I haven't seen this topic discussed on this forum yet. I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts on hiring undocumented workers and paying them cash.

Here in NJ, and a lot of other areas of the country I'm sure, almost every lawncare/landscaping company that I know hires illegal immigrants to some degree, mostly from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc. From what I can tell, they are usually paid between $9 and $12/hour as laborers. They might get a few more dollars here and there if they stay with the company some years and learn to operate heavier equipment.

This is not an issue for me yet, as I work alone. However, in the past I've worked for other companies alongside these guys. Most of them work extremely hard, harder than most Americans I've ever worked with actually. However, there's obviously a moral concern to hiring an undocumented guy vs. a taxpaying American citizen.

In this area, though, it seems to me that once you need to hire a few guys, it's impossible to stay competitive if you don't hire the undocumented workers. If I don't do it, I know my competitors will. Most Americans I know don't want to get paid $10/hour, especially when there are taxes coming out of that money. So how can I survive and grow without hiring illegal immigrants as my labor force? Especially when, in my opinion, even if I pay an American $20/hour he's not going to outwork the undocumented guy getting paid half. And since I'd still be on every job, language barriers would not present a problem.

Thoughts? I'd especially like to hear the opinion of those who actually work in areas similar to mine. That is, metropolitan areas where the illegal immigrant population makes up a lot of our workforce.

Hedgemaster
09-25-2011, 11:27 AM
No. You really don't want to hear my thoughts on this...

element009
09-25-2011, 05:24 PM
Sure I would. I just want to know about the experience of others in this situation I never see anybody talking about it, but I know it's an unavoidable fact of running an LCO in New Jersey and other places as well.

mark123
09-25-2011, 05:47 PM
I think if you knowingly hire an illegal alien then you should lose your business. If you don't care about that law why would you care about the rest. You become a criminal in my sight and I won't associate with you.

calebmoss
09-25-2011, 08:28 PM
If you call an illegal alien an undocumented worker than lets call the crack dealer on the street corner an unlicenced pharmisit.

I think its wrong theres plenty of americans that need a job.

shadrach
09-25-2011, 09:24 PM
Here in NJ, and a lot of other areas of the country I'm sure, almost every lawncare/landscaping company that I know hires illegal immigrants to some degree, mostly from Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, etc.


might be h2b's

Jack Rabbit
09-25-2011, 09:55 PM
I wouldn't hire an illegal alien.

I have sympathy for you though. Since your competition hires them it is tough for you to have competitive prices. You might have to choose between struggling and standing by your principles.

Some, maybe many, lawn care customers would like to know that you don't hire them so you could advertise that your employees are all legal to work here.

I live in the Southwest in a small town just 80 miles from the border.

$9-$12/hr! I call it a good month if I made minimum wage.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
09-25-2011, 10:24 PM
I wouldn't hire an illegal alien.

I have sympathy for you though. Since your competition hires them it is tough for you to have competitive prices. You might have to choose between struggling and standing by your principles.

Some, maybe many, lawn care customers would like to know that you don't hire them so you could advertise that your employees are all legal to work here.

I live in the Southwest in a small town just 80 miles from the border.

$9-$12/hr! I call it a good month if I made minimum wage.

I would do your best and advertise that you use English speaking crew. I know this is later down the road for you but I know we have gotten jobs cause the crew speaks English.

It really comes down to you and the company you want to be.

mark123
09-26-2011, 06:24 AM
You should call your company something that has the initials I.C.E. and make an official looking logo. Then drive around the other guy's jobs and watch the illegals run. :D

Ducke
09-26-2011, 06:35 AM
Well not really having that kind of problem up here.
I think that just because your from another planet shouldn't make you illegal.
although I do believe they should have the proper space travel documents when they arrive if they expect to work here.
I think it would be cool to work with a alien.;)

element009
09-26-2011, 08:19 AM
might be h2b's
I don't think so. Most of the dudes are straight up illegal, hence the cash payments.

$9-$12/hr! I call it a good month if I made minimum wage.
I got paid $12/hr last summer and it was not easy to pay for things by any stretch of the imagination. People generally have higher salaries in this state, but the cost of living is near the highest in the country. So 9-12/hr here might be the same real value as minimum wage elsewhere.

But alas, I guess this issue is more localized than I thought.

Steve
09-26-2011, 05:20 PM
But alas, I guess this issue is more localized than I thought.

It may come down to that. Certain areas may have more infrastructure set up to host people who are illegally in this country. By that I mean, family or friends to help support them.

If these conditions are lacking, someone in this country illegally would be hard pressed to exist in that geographic area.

element009
09-26-2011, 06:02 PM
If these conditions are lacking, someone in this country illegally would be hard pressed to exist in that geographic area.


So what about you? Do you see this in your market?

stevef1201
09-26-2011, 08:22 PM
I live and work near Tampa FLorida. If I can prove tht any of my competition is useing illegles I turn em in. Call the sherriff and demand thay arrest the worker, the supervisor, and the owner of the comapny. I have also filed lawsuits against companies for useing illegals. I dont and wont hire em. I use Everify for everyone. No Felons, No child mosters etc. My liability is too damn high to take a chance.

element009
09-26-2011, 09:49 PM
I live and work near Tampa FLorida. If I can prove tht any of my competition is useing illegles I turn em in. Call the sherriff and demand thay arrest the worker, the supervisor, and the owner of the comapny. I have also filed lawsuits against companies for useing illegals. I dont and wont hire em. I use Everify for everyone. No Felons, No child mosters etc. My liability is too damn high to take a chance.

Damn. I guess that's a good way to ensure the competition doesn't have an illegal advantage.

Is this something you've dealt with on multiple occasions? How common are illegals in your area/market? And have you made enemies of your competition?

Ryan's Lawn Care
09-27-2011, 09:29 PM
one of my customers told me he wont hire mexicans to mow his lawn and that he likes the job i do and the fact i can speak english. So I'd say u need to look at that aspect as well.

element009
09-27-2011, 10:30 PM
one of my customers told me he wont hire mexicans to mow his lawn and that he likes the job i do and the fact i can speak english. So I'd say u need to look at that aspect as well.

Ryan, do you currently work alone like me? Do you have ambitions to eventually hire people? I'm guessing in MD there may be some similarities in workforce demographics to NJ. Do you see a lot of competition w/ under-the-table workers?

Steve
09-28-2011, 06:13 PM
I have also filed lawsuits against companies for useing illegals.

How did that all come about? And what kind of results came from it? I am sure others would be interested to know as well.

Ducke
09-28-2011, 08:53 PM
Its not only Illegal Migrants.
Here in Canada I know guy born and raised in Canada but when times are tough especially in the winter off season they will work skill trade jobs for cash.
Hey ya got to make ends meet and sometimes you just gotta do what ya got to do.

Its all about the money and an attitude we North Americans have of more more more. GREED
Think about it if we didn't keep demanding more more more and were happy with what we have. We could still buy Coke for a nickle and gas for a quarter.
The men would work and women would stay home and raise the family of 2.5 children. oh life would be so simple so nice. so 1950s.

God I watch way to much TV and the codeine is fogging up my brain.

Well you see what I'm saying it not all about illegals its home grown too.

Ryan's Lawn Care
10-02-2011, 12:06 PM
thats a nice thought and all but im sorry consumerism is not responsible for the fact that many families need to have a dual income. It's the fact that the cost of living is much higher now.

Ryan's Lawn Care
10-02-2011, 12:18 PM
Ryan, do you currently work alone like me? Do you have ambitions to eventually hire people? I'm guessing in MD there may be some similarities in workforce demographics to NJ. Do you see a lot of competition w/ under-the-table workers?

ya i currently work alone i just have a small side business right now due to the fact that i am a college student. When I get out of school and have a lot of my time freed up i would like to expand and possibly hire people. And as far as the under the table workers I dont know if you have ever heard of brickmen they are damn near everywhere and all they have are mexicans and a white guy driving the truck obviously the person in a supervisor position.

Ducke
10-02-2011, 01:39 PM
thats a nice thought and all but im sorry consumerism is not responsible for the fact that many families need to have a dual income. It's the fact that the cost of living is much higher now.

I have a problem with these statements.
Why do you think we have such a High cost of living ??????
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wait he's still thinking on this one :confused:
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Consumerism:eek:

DING DING DING
If everyone was happy with a small two bed house and one small compact car two kids and one dog, But were not we are greedy little buggers who what more more bigger bigger hence driving both people out in to the work force to earn more so they can buy more and try to be better and bigger then the Jones next door.
Its what you guy south of Canada call the American Dream or what I call a load of crap We need to stop counting our toys and start counting our blessings.

mark123
10-02-2011, 03:21 PM
Yep, Ducke. It's supply and demand. Cause and effect. We set the prices by our buying habits ...


... but ...


... the US government being able to print more money to pay their unpayable bills doesn't help the equation. Superinflation, coming up! It affects Canada, too.

Ducke
10-02-2011, 07:36 PM
Yep, Ducke. It's supply and demand. Cause and effect. We set the prices by our buying habits ...


... but ...


... the US government being able to print more money to pay their unpayable bills doesn't help the equation. Superinflation, coming up! It affects Canada, too.

I know what you mean I have been watching Investments like a Hawk.
I am starting to think my mattress is safer then the stock market right now.
I been thinking of selling the house and buying a small hobby farm were I can sustain myself if needed.
A couple cows ,goats chickens duck a horse or two and an 1-2 acre vegetable garden along with some assorted fruit trees.
Then the whole thing can collapse and I won't care.

mark123
10-02-2011, 07:42 PM
I know what you mean I have been watching Investments like a Hawk.
I am starting to think my mattress is safer then the stock market right now.
I been thinking of selling the house and buying a small hobby farm were I can sustain myself if needed.
A couple cows ,goats chickens duck a horse or two and an 1-2 acre vegetable garden along with some assorted fruit trees.
Then the whole thing can collapse and I won't care.

Sounds like a great plan. If everything goes as planned then I'm going to have my house paid off by June of next year and then I'm going to try to buy some land in the country for something similar. A huge fruit and veggie farm with a composting business on the side. I've got to learn how to do canning.

Hedgemaster
10-02-2011, 07:54 PM
So, are you guys going to hire illegals to work on your farms?



:D


Just trying to keep the thread on topic. :p

Ryan's Lawn Care
10-02-2011, 09:33 PM
I have a problem with these statements.
Why do you think we have such a High cost of living ??????
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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wait he's still thinking on this one :confused:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Consumerism:eek:

DING DING DING
If everyone was happy with a small two bed house and one small compact car two kids and one dog, But were not we are greedy little buggers who what more more bigger bigger hence driving both people out in to the work force to earn more so they can buy more and try to be better and bigger then the Jones next door.
Its what you guy south of Canada call the American Dream or what I call a load of crap We need to stop counting our toys and start counting our blessings.

considering in my area that some of the houses go for 7oo thousand and the median income in my area is 60k a year it would take a dual income just to survive.Now im not saying people dont buy a lot of useless crap because they sure do but not being able to afford things when you earn a good living because of crap spending habits is pathetic. I know someone that makes 70k a year and filled for bankruptcy for the second time now cus she cannot manage money. Sometimes living without cable tv and not going out to eat for every meal is better in the long run.

element009
10-03-2011, 11:06 AM
ya i currently work alone i just have a small side business right now due to the fact that i am a college student. When I get out of school and have a lot of my time freed up i would like to expand and possibly hire people. And as far as the under the table workers I dont know if you have ever heard of brickmen they are damn near everywhere and all they have are mexicans and a white guy driving the truck obviously the person in a supervisor position.

Hey Ryan you're right about Brickman. They are all over Jersey too. There's a guy in my neighborhood who is an "account executive" for them, aka a "white guy driving the truck" He actually approached me while I was working on his neighbor's house and gave me his card. He said if my business doesn't work out to give him a call because hard working Americans are hard to find, but they need them to supervise their non-english speaking labor force and, more importantly, be the nice American face for the customers. I pray to God I never have to take him up on that offer.

element009
10-03-2011, 11:27 AM
But were not we are greedy little buggers who what more more bigger bigger hence driving both people out in to the work force to earn more so they can buy more and try to be better and bigger then the Jones next door.
Hey Ducke,

You're right about the greed aspect, but I don't think you can blame the consumer on this completely. You gotta take into account the banks giving out crazy loans to people who had no business getting approved for these loans. I mean don't get me wrong, the people who are smart with their money would never have taken out mortgages for 450K when they make less than 100K a year, for example, but sadly, most Americans never had an inkling things would ever go south in the economy. And, as you say, once one person got approved for a huge mortgage, the neighbors felt the need to keep up with the Jones'. Yet somehow, select banks were bailed out even though they knew they were giving out loans to people who would never be able to pay them back.

As a matter of fact, Americans have been riding this wave of "we are the supreme nation and therefore deserve the best of the best and we should always have more than our parents" since post WWII era. It seems only now that people are waking up to the reality that other nations are eclipsing us because we've lost the fire in our bellies and don't work as hard as we used to anymore******which is why, coming full circle with this thread, illegal Mexican immigrants in my area are the preferred labor force, because they work a hell of a lot harder than many Americans....and they do it for a lot less pay.

.....And mark123, I totally agree w/ your statement about the FED's genius Monetary policy ideas, i.e. print as much paper money as you can.....I wonder if these guys ever heard of WWI Germany and hyperinflation?.....Soon it will be cheaper to burn our money in the fireplace than to go buy firewood with it.

dclawnfl
10-08-2011, 05:16 PM
well in fl most of our workers are some kind of spanish speaking.i have one spanish guy from porterico and two americans,my american is always on the ball,but my spanish guy is up and down.i dont use people that are unskilled or dont have kids.a family man will shoe up everyday and stay busy.:o

element009
10-09-2011, 05:11 PM
In my experience there's a huge difference between spanish speakers depending on the country they're from. Puerto Ricans are generally legal residents and aren't sending their money back to families at home. The guys I was referring to are usually Mexican or some other central American country and are getting paid cash, sending money back home via Western Union.

JeffK26
10-09-2011, 11:40 PM
I have always thought my idea was pretty good.

Tell everyone on welfare to earn their handout by making them round up illegals. The people on welfare could drive the buses to the border to drop them off, then go back and fill the jobs that have just been vacated by the illegals having to go home.

element009
10-10-2011, 10:55 AM
I have always thought my idea was pretty good.

Tell everyone on welfare to earn their handout by making them round up illegals. The people on welfare could drive the buses to the border to drop them off, then go back and fill the jobs that have just been vacated by the illegals having to go home.


LOL, I definitely would rather my tax money go toward securing our borders and protecting American jobs than to pay people to sit on the couch and have kids!

stevef1201
10-17-2011, 05:30 PM
In my experience there's a huge difference between spanish speakers depending on the country they're from. Puerto Ricans are generally legal residents and aren't sending their money back to families at home. The guys I was referring to are usually Mexican or some other central American country and are getting paid cash, sending money back home via Western Union.


I've got 6 families from Puerto Rico living around me, and believe me they WORK HARD, and THEY SPEAK ENGLISH, as well as spanish.

LOL, I definitely would rather my tax money go toward securing our borders and protecting American jobs than to pay people to sit on the couch and have kids!
I would like to point out that you dont 'have kids' by sitting on the couch

strength
10-17-2011, 08:48 PM
THERE is a large landscape co in my area don't want to put any names out there but they are on i.n.s. hit list they are in the paper all the time when i mean large i know of 3 shops that they have 10 to 15 trucks each shop so 30-45 trucks most 4 door so 3-4 man crews what i have seen all newer trucks they have all the big grass cutting accounts/mulch all commercial what i see . it turns my gut to see them get bigger as some of us get smaller

element009
10-18-2011, 10:23 AM
I would like to point out that you dont 'have kids' by sitting on the couch

Ahh yes how silly of me. Thanks for pointing that out

Perhaps I should've made clearer that the welfare recipients who generally "sit on the couch" AND "have kids" do not necessarily do both at the same time, nor does one inevitably cause the other.

cruzgardening
10-18-2011, 12:11 PM
Illegal Aliens do paytaxes when made to pay taxes, here in California you have to give your employees w2 forms even if they are illegal. So if you do hire an illegal Alien it is your responsibility to make him pay taxes, it is a misconception that since they are illegal they can not pay taxes at least here in California all Illegal Aliens have to pay taxes if they are working.


now about hiring them? well it is illegal and you can get a $10,000.000 fine for hiring them, if a business owner hires them knowingly i think it is irresponsible since they can loose everything they have but if you do hire an illegal Alien without knowing (if they present you fake I.D's) then i would say its not your fault, i would never discriminate anyone simply by the way they look, Lincoln fought hard for the freedom and equality of all and for any of us to descriminate because of how someone looks it is as wrong as willingly hiring an Illegal Alien.

hope this helps :)

P.S. Illegal Aliens with W2 forms pay taxes with a business number. :)

element009
10-18-2011, 09:22 PM
Illegal Aliens do paytaxes when made to pay taxes, here in California you have to give your employees w2 forms even if they are illegal. So if you do hire an illegal Alien it is your responsibility to make him pay taxes, it is a misconception that since they are illegal they can not pay taxes at least here in California all Illegal Aliens have to pay taxes if they are working.


now about hiring them? well it is illegal and you can get a $10,000.000 fine for hiring them, if a business owner hires them knowingly i think it is irresponsible since they can loose everything they have but if you do hire an illegal Alien without knowing (if they present you fake I.D's) then i would say its not your fault, i would never discriminate anyone simply by the way they look, Lincoln fought hard for the freedom and equality of all and for any of us to descriminate because of how someone looks it is as wrong as willingly hiring an Illegal Alien.

hope this helps :)

P.S. Illegal Aliens with W2 forms pay taxes with a business number. :)

So you're saying in California it is illegal to hire an Illegal Alien and you can face 10K in fines if you do so.....
BUT at the same time in California if you hire an Illegal Alien it is your responsibility to make them pay taxes???

That seems like two policies that don't really make sense together.

I agree that a lot of them present fake ids and those guys are paying taxes..but in those instances, as far as the employer knows, they are legal citizens.....however i know in NJ there's a lot of guys in landscaping who just get paid straight cash....and those dudes aren't paying income tax, soc security, or anything else that Uncle Sam says you and I have to pay.

MountainViewGreenskeeper
10-18-2011, 09:34 PM
So you're saying in California it is illegal to hire an Illegal Alien and you can face 10K in fines if you do so.....
BUT at the same time in California if you hire an Illegal Alien it is your responsibility to make them pay taxes???

That seems like two policies that don't really make sense together.

I agree that a lot of them present fake ids and those guys are paying taxes..but in those instances, as far as the employer knows, they are legal citizens.....however i know in NJ there's a lot of guys in landscaping who just get paid straight cash....and those dudes aren't paying income tax, soc security, or anything else that Uncle Sam says you and I have to pay.

Im not a tax expert but the employer pay taxes on that income don't they. You have to report where you money goes and in the instance of payroll you have to have a ss# or a other #.

element009
10-18-2011, 10:05 PM
Im not a tax expert but the employer pay taxes on that income don't they. You have to report where you money goes and in the instance of payroll you have to have a ss# or a other #.

I assume they mark it as some other kind of expenditure instead of including it as a payroll expense when they do their taxes....I can't think of a reason to pay someone in cash if you were going to then report it as payroll. What would be the incentive to pay cash then?

Business owners who are paying illegal aliens in cash are doing so knowingly and illegally, otherwise they'd pay them in checks and make them pay taxes....So I assume if these people are comfortable breaking the law by hiring them, then they are comfortable breaking the law by not reporting their cash payroll

The Cleaning Doctor
10-19-2011, 11:58 AM
This is an issue that hits close to home for me. In '57 my dad, aunts, uncle and grandparents immigrated from Austria. They had to come through the system legally with all the hassle that goes along with it. They also had to work and support their family.

On my dad's side of the family, I am the first generation born in this country. On my mom's side, my great grandmother came to Washington State in a covered wagon at the age of 3.

These are NOT undocumented workers they are illegal aliens. Law breakers and should be treated as such. If they want a better life then they either need to come through legally or do what we did over 200 years ago to make their lives better. Sure a lot of people will get killed but freedom is not free as we well know. Just look what happened in South Africa in the not so distant past along with other countries like Libia today. People fighting for their freedom.

element009
10-19-2011, 04:14 PM
This is an issue that hits close to home for me. In '57 my dad, aunts, uncle and grandparents immigrated from Austria. They had to come through the system legally with all the hassle that goes along with it. They also had to work and support their family.

On my dad's side of the family, I am the first generation born in this country. On my mom's side, my great grandmother came to Washington State in a covered wagon at the age of 3.

These are NOT undocumented workers they are illegal aliens. Law breakers and should be treated as such. If they want a better life then they either need to come through legally or do what we did over 200 years ago to make their lives better. Sure a lot of people will get killed but freedom is not free as we well know. Just look what happened in South Africa in the not so distant past along with other countries like Libia today. People fighting for their freedom.

I'm with you on that..Less than 100 years ago neither side of my fam was in this country. But when they arrived, they did it legally. Granted the US was pretty much letting anybody in at that point in time, which is not the case now.

It's a shame the Feds do such a bad job at fighting the problem.

JeffK26
10-19-2011, 05:07 PM
Same here, my wife is from England and we're going through tons of paperwork just to get her a SSN so she can work and drive. Let alone having citizenship. The fees we have to pay are ridiculous and the wait time is annoying to say the least.

Maybe this thread isn't the one to say it, but Libya and Egypt are not fighting for their freedoms...Not all revolutions and protests are about gaining freedom. The only reason i'm bringing this up is it's a sore subject for me, I served two tours in Iraq, 27 month.....me and my brothers did not spend time fighting Al-Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan so our government could support them in another country, namely Libya and Egypt.

cruzgardening
10-19-2011, 10:19 PM
So you're saying in California it is illegal to hire an Illegal Alien and you can face 10K in fines if you do so.....
BUT at the same time in California if you hire an Illegal Alien it is your responsibility to make them pay taxes???

That seems like two policies that don't really make sense together.

I agree that a lot of them present fake ids and those guys are paying taxes..but in those instances, as far as the employer knows, they are legal citizens.....however i know in NJ there's a lot of guys in landscaping who just get paid straight cash....and those dudes aren't paying income tax, soc security, or anything else that Uncle Sam says you and I have to pay.

Yup California's government knows they have lots of Illegal Aliens in their borders so i guess it works for them.

on another note, i've always talked to friends and family about this issue extensively and i know that having an illegal alien working for us is not the way to go my father owns 2 different businesses and 3 apartment units here in california and he knows first hand that this Aliens are hard working people, having 2-3 jobs to stay on top of their payments, something other people might just ignore and go into bankruptcy, now I would hire someone who wants to work and help him/her try to get their documentation the right way, many would think this is wrong, but if i can find a good worker i would really try to keep him.

sure 200 years ago there was our independence day and then the civil war and slaves became free but come on do you guys really think that 12 million illegal immigrants not paying their taxes are the reason why our country is the way it is? i honestly don't. i've heard it all from welfare being given to the illegal immigrants to free medical services given to them, but what i know is the truth is that since 1994 when we started outsourcing our workforce and our businesses our economy started to tank... but the main thing started in the 70's but this is not a history class lol
so back to the point...

Hiring an illegal alien is still bad but if you don't know they are illegal then its not your fault :P guys remember our business is the first thing to go in hard economic times so lets think of how to improve our economy and lets include all of the people in the puzzle...

JeffK26
10-19-2011, 10:56 PM
Illegal is illegal...my ancestors did it the legal way, i'm doing it the legal way with my wife... they can to.

If an 85 year old man can perform in the IronMan 140+ miles of swimming, biking and running. If a man with no legs can run a marathon. If some kid in poverty can grow up to make millions playing a sport, then a decent human being can go to a freakin office on his own and fill out the proper paperwork to start his or her way to being a LEGAL immigrant.

I do not care how hard you work, if someone sneaks in, and takes something from a diamond to money to a job illegally then he/she is not part of any puzzle i want to belong to.

"oh, he beats his wife and drinks a case a beer a night, but he's a hard worker" is as lame an excuse as "oh he snuck across the border, but he's a hard worker"...illegal is illegal...do it right or go home.

element009
10-20-2011, 08:45 AM
.illegal is illegal...do it right or go home.

From the immigrant's perspective though, living here illegally is 100 times better than living in their home country. It's well worth the risk to come here and work illegally. If they get caught, they just get deported. There aren't any consequences to it. Then they can just cross the border again a week later.....so for someone living in abject poverty in Mexico, it's well worth the risk. It's a better life, even if they are here illegally.

Is it wrong to come here illegally? maybe....but it's all about perspective. From a law abiding American point of view one will claim that they would never do such an unthinkable thing as break the law, even for a better life......but if you were born and raised in a country that is run more by criminal organizations than governments, where laws don't mean the same thing they do here, than the risk of deportation is a feeble deterrent vs. the possibility of a vast improvement in quality of life.

My point? The Feds need to secure the borders better so they can stop people coming here illegally. Because right now it's just too easy to get here and too easy to stay. The number of illegal immigrants in this country is over 11 million.

SECTLANDSCAPING
10-20-2011, 02:03 PM
The first thing you read when you go to my site is were a family owned business with American workers. I think the customers appreciate that not only can they communicate with English speakers but that your a legit company not employing workers standing in front of home depot.

I agree do it legally. Both sides of my family immigrated here in the last 75-150 years. Its actually easier nowadays then it was then. So whats the problem?

stevef1201
11-22-2013, 03:32 PM
When I was in Texas there was a BIG construction company, that would pay cash every Friday. All you had to do was go get in line, and get paid. Sounds great right? Well INS was always there, and If you were not legal to work in the US you were picked up, and transported to the border. OOOPs you didn't get your pay? Tough!

LawnBoy0311
11-22-2013, 04:38 PM
This is a topic I could go on for hours about. It seems like border states take the problem seriously, the rest don't.

Washington DC is voting right now to let illegal aliens get a drivers license. That's right, YOUR nation's capital has a high chance of letting border jumpers drive a vehicle. And get this, the county I live in is trying to pass a law that any illegal aliens that commit a misdemeanor offense will not get turned in to ICE. Their reasoning is its too expensive to deport them and too time consuming. In other words, so what if an illegal was driving a vehicle with no license, speeding, and got pulled over?? He'll still be able to stay! Some states are even trying to pass/have passed laws saying they can't ask for green cards or documentation that they are US citizens because it is considered "profiling".

The reality is most states could care less. It seems like when Barry Obama opened up the gates to America, everyone is welcomed with open arms and no penalties, that there are other important things than trying to deport illegal aliens. Maybe 10 years ago you could turn in an illegal and he will get deported, but in todays day and age....doubtful. Its the sad truth. Hell, look at how much flak sheriff Joe Arpaio has taken for his firm stance!

Restaurants are known for hiring illegal aliens. 2 years ago, there was a large restaurant by me who got busted...for the final time. Yup, he was caught twice before and was only given a slap on the wrist. The reason he got into so much trouble this time was because he was giving them fake social security numbers, paying them in checks (so they couldn't cash them) then taking out a fee to "cash" their check. He also had several houses where the workers stayed, and he took rent out of their checks. He was an owner/partner in 2 other restaurants. When ICE came knocking on all 3 of his restaurants, he got arrested. He's in jail now, paid millions of dollars to the government for tax evasion and money laundering. As for the workers? They were ran for warrants and let go. Shocking huh? An illegal alien detained by ICE was set free.

A local trash company near me is on the verge of losing a county contract worth millions. The reason being? Their illegal workers went on strike because their pay was too low. So now auditors are looking over the books to make sure these illegal workers are treated fair and given the money they "deserved". Not 1 got deported.

Do a lot of companies hire illegal aliens? Sure they do. Is it something I would do? No. Its none of my business what others do with their companies or who they hire. "Ratting" them out is a waste of time and I'd rather focus those efforts on my own company. Each company has their reasons for hiring illegals. As a veteran of the USMC and OIF/OEF, I support American workers. I also want my customers to know they can talk to us with no language barrier.

dpld
11-22-2013, 04:51 PM
i am not a fan of illegal immigration and i just assume keep my opinion to myself in fear of offending too many people. but, with that said i operate out of nj and although all my workers are legal and i never hired a undocumented worker i can already see that after 23 years the day is coming where that may have to be a option.

first off, the majority of todays american youth is pure lazy 100% useless crap and would sooner go on welfare and public assistance then work for a living.
i know there are some youngsters on this board that may be reading this saying " say what, mother F'er ? ". well, i am not talking about you and you are far and few between and you know exactly as much as i do that i know what i am talking about.

american kids today are attached to their phones chatting and texting back and forth all day as if it is their birth right and dream about making it to the big time without doing a dam thing.
what cracks me up about these kids and the beeotch like talking habits is they are wasting their lives talking about nonsense and trivial crap as if the world revolves around it.
i don't get it? i never needed that much attention when i was that age and being 47 years old, a father of 2 and running a business grossing 600K and i am not on the phone in a week as much as these idiots are in a day.

anyway, i am ranting and time to get back on track.

the undocumented workers show up ready to work and they don't complain and they are kind of the same mindset as americans were not too long ago.
they know they have to work and they don't have a desk job so they just deal with it.

if i were to use these guys i would apply for the work visa route, i am not 100% sure what it's exact title is and is does cost a pretty penny but at least you won't go to jail.

undocumented workers are a problem and it does keep people from getting jobs but as time progresses there are less and less legal people who want these jobs.
undocumented and illegal businesses are just as big as a problem and put just as many people out of work .

Ronnie Tomassetti
11-22-2013, 07:14 PM
Its a hornets nest which I have strong feelings about this subject . In 2005 it was not a problem but now Its a big problem. I was talking to my accountant and the Obama admin was not doing anything. He had a client who had 12 illegals working for him and he got caught. The IRS gave him a pass. The accountant could not believe it. This summer there were 5 landscape crews lined up on the side of the road at a road safety stop. They were let go. I called the attorney generals office making complaints against them and nothing. I love the city's who demand a business license and never check to see if its legit. I am pass a boiling point with this state. How do I know if they are illegal. Maybe because they are walking around with 7000 in there pocket to buy a zero turn . I am ready to sue the state and cities for my loss of business due to this problem.

dpld
11-22-2013, 09:36 PM
Its a hornets nest which I have strong feelings about this subject . In 2005 it was not a problem but now Its a big problem. I was talking to my accountant and the Obama admin was not doing anything. He had a client who had 12 illegals working for him and he got caught. The IRS gave him a pass. The accountant could not believe it. This summer there were 5 landscape crews lined up on the side of the road at a road safety stop. They were let go. I called the attorney generals office making complaints against them and nothing. I love the city's who demand a business license and never check to see if its legit. I am pass a boiling point with this state. How do I know if they are illegal. Maybe because they are walking around with 7000 in there pocket to buy a zero turn . I am ready to sue the state and cities for my loss of business due to this problem.


i hear where you are coming from and completely understand.
it is so hard to do the right thing these days and by doing so puts you at a terrible disadvantage.
the economics of this business is getting completely out of whack.
you have legal businesses following all the rules competing with illegal businesses that don't and as a result their costs are a fraction of mine.

as i mentioned before we churned out 600 k in maintenance this year, sounds like a lot of money, and it is. but by the time you take out all the cost of doing business it paints a very different picture.
42 k of that is sales tax, another 34 k for my contributions to payroll taxes, so far to date we spent 41 k on fuel, 22 k on insurance and workers comp plus countless other expenses and then on top of all that i have to pay the 9 employees my income tax and the businesses taxes.

when it is all said and done you would piss your pants if you seen what was left. the maintenance end is not as profitable as it was years ago and with all the bogus businesses out there under cutting everyone and driving the value of the industry down it makes it far more difficult.
then you throw in illegal workers who work for cash and the employer is free from taxes and insurance, how are you to compete with that?

every unregulated industry that any person off the street can get into without any special licensing, training is exactly the same as landscaping.
you can make a average living but you won't get rich.

most people spend their lives running their small business themselves and riding the mowers and being on every job always saying i don't need to be a big company.
but then one little two fold flaw becomes a reality later down the line, you get older and you can not do it all anymore.
the problem with that is all these years you were making money and getting by but your not rich enough to retire and you spent your whole life doing it all yourself so now you need to have people in place to do it for you and it just is not that easy.
it takes years to get systems in place to run a couple or more crews and have everything work like a well oiled machine. and in order to have some decent money left over for yourself in this financial climate you need to have a couple solid crews to do that.

it is a different world we live in today and this industry has challenges that most other industries don't.
and the government is certainly not doing any of us any favors and is probably compounding the problems with their inability to act and enforce laws that have been on the books for decades.

Ronnie Tomassetti
11-23-2013, 04:29 PM
I have hundreds of photos I am ready to start a facebook page. The little ****suckers are pretty bold there was one who has on his truck "Pass the dream act now" and another one who clamed he was lic and insured. If they were not protected I would kick the **** out of them.

LawnBoy0311
11-23-2013, 07:08 PM
I have hundreds of photos I am ready to start a facebook page. The little ****suckers are pretty bold there was one who has on his truck "Pass the dream act now" and another one who clamed he was lic and insured. If they were not protected I would kick the **** out of them.

I'd say the only thing my state does right is prosecute anyone who claims to have the proper license but does not.