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Shark1611
03-09-2011, 07:49 PM
I have been told that our two cylce equipment will have a much shorter life span due to the added ethaonal. I was told anything over 10% is even worse. I have been told that there is not a thing that can be added to the fuel to help prevent damage! I am a manager of a hardware store and have a number of lawn care customers talking about this. One told me today that if the gas sets up for a few days it will seperate and all you will have running through your power equipment is alcohal this will cause scoring in the cylinder.

I have had others tell me that it is no big deal. I know someone on here has the scoop on this issue. What is the truth?

wandfsmall
03-09-2011, 09:21 PM
I have been told that our two cylce equipment will have a much shorter life span due to the added ethaonal. I was told anything over 10% is even worse. I have been told that there is not a thing that can be added to the fuel to help prevent damage! I am a manager of a hardware store and have a number of lawn care customers talking about this. One told me today that if the gas sets up for a few days it will seperate and all you will have running through your power equipment is alcohal this will cause scoring in the cylinder.

I have had others tell me that it is no big deal. I know someone on here has the scoop on this issue. What is the truth?

the problems you hear about ethanol are true... so far no true solution.

Shark1611
03-09-2011, 10:25 PM
the problems you hear about ethanol are true... so far no true solution.


So...all my Red Max power equipment it going to crap because of this crap. Boy that is hard to take. Thank you and look forward to how I can keep them running the longest with this issue.

jymie
03-09-2011, 10:54 PM
So...all my Red Max power equipment it going to crap because of this crap. Boy that is hard to take. Thank you and look forward to how I can keep them running the longest with this issue.

Would shaking the equipment to remix the fuel be a solution?

Steve
03-10-2011, 01:17 AM
Do you have the option in your area of not using ethanol? It seems it's better to avoid it.

Shark1611
03-10-2011, 06:02 AM
Do you have the option in your area of not using ethanol? It seems it's better to avoid it.

I will ask and look around my city and find out if there is such a place. Why would our country do such a thing to it's people?

wandfsmall
03-10-2011, 07:33 AM
Sorry about the short post I was pretty sick yesterday, Ethanol is a problem and will be a problem for a while. Your best bet to avoid problems is to

1. Use Ethanol free fuel www.pure-gas.org (http://www.pure-gas.org) can help you find a gas station.

2. shake the gas can before you fill the trimmer.

3. Use a quality fuel mix, not the crap you buy at a box store or the ones that look like ketchup packets.

4. Use Star Tron stabilizer in your fuel if it is stored for any length of time.

5. Use premixed fuel such as SEF at the end of the season as your last tank for storing your equipment.


Ethanol does a few things to the engine

1 it dries out your carb gaskets
2 it dissolves your fuel lines and plugs your carburetor
3 it separates your gas causing your cylinder walls to scare from running to lean
4 it draws water into your gas causing your engine to be hard to start and possibly run like crap

wandfsmall
03-10-2011, 05:17 PM
Would shaking the equipment to remix the fuel be a solution?

yes and shaking your can before fillup is a must.

Gls
03-10-2011, 06:42 PM
So the closest station is 23 miles away, 33 minutes. How long will the ethanol free gas store? I am trying to figure out if I can store a few cans worth. Driving that distance with any frequency does not seem worth it but with the price of new equipment being the alternative, it may. Could I get a months worth or two or...?

wandfsmall
03-10-2011, 10:04 PM
So the closest station is 23 miles away, 33 minutes. How long will the ethanol free gas store? I am trying to figure out if I can store a few cans worth. Driving that distance with any frequency does not seem worth it but with the price of new equipment being the alternative, it may. Could I get a months worth or two or...?

I have seen ethanol free gas last 3 months or more with star tron in it. one of the biggest things you can do is the sef fuel as your last tank so the ethanol does not sit in your carb or your lines.

trust me as soon as I find a solution it will be in my store.

Shark1611
03-11-2011, 06:55 AM
Thank you so much. What a huge help. I found a gas station in my area.

Do I need to buy only for two cycle or all my equipment.

Sorry about the short post I was pretty sick yesterday, Ethanol is a problem and will be a problem for a while. Your best bet to avoid problems is to

1. Use Ethanol free fuel www.pure-gas.org (http://www.pure-gas.org) can help you find a gas station.

2. shake the gas can before you fill the trimmer.

3. Use a quality fuel mix, not the crap you buy at a box store or the ones that look like ketchup packets.

4. Use Star Tron stabilizer in your fuel if it is stored for any length of time.

5. Use premixed fuel such as SEF at the end of the season as your last tank for storing your equipment.


Ethanol does a few things to the engine

1 it dries out your carb gaskets
2 it dissolves your fuel lines and plugs your carburetor
3 it separates your gas causing your cylinder walls to scare from running to lean
4 it draws water into your gas causing your engine to be hard to start and possibly run like crap

wandfsmall
03-11-2011, 09:03 AM
personally I recommend it for all of your equipment, but 2cycle is the most important. All engines with carburetors have problems with ethanol.

Shark1611
03-12-2011, 07:17 AM
personally I recommend it for all of your equipment, but 2cycle is the most important. All engines with carburetors have problems with ethanol.
Thank you for all rhe information. I saw an aditive call ethanol shield. Does this help at all?

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 10:16 AM
Thank you for all rhe information. I saw an aditive call ethanol shield. Does this help at all?

I have found no proof that it does, but I have people testing it. I am someone that feels I should test every product before I tell my customers it is good to use.

Hedgemaster
03-12-2011, 10:55 AM
Has anyone found this to be an issue with warranty work?
Any hidden disclaimers not covering problems due to ethanol fuel?


I can't wait for my brand new snowblower to not work next season because of this crap gas. :(

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 12:53 PM
Has anyone found this to be an issue with warranty work?
Any hidden disclaimers not covering problems due to ethanol fuel?


I can't wait for my brand new snowblower to not work next season because of this crap gas. :(

YES it is not covered by any warranty that I know of. You might want to start your snowblowblower and run some sef 4cycle fuel into it if you can find it.

Shark1611
03-12-2011, 01:38 PM
What a mess. YES it is not covered by any warranty that I know of. You might want to start your snowblowblower and run some sef 4cycle fuel into it if you can find it.

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 01:59 PM
What a mess.

yeah no kidding, try being on my end lost of back yard shops with no training and updates give out bad info that leget shops have to clean up after. We get lots of people that say ethanol is not a problem yelling at us when the trimmers they bought from home depot do not run and we tell them it is the carb....

makes you want to shut down sometimes:confused:

Hedgemaster
03-12-2011, 02:10 PM
YES it is not covered by any warranty that I know of. You might want to start your snowblowblower and run some sef 4cycle fuel into it if you can find it.

Lovely.

Could you elaborate on this "SEF" that you have mentioned? I've not heard of it, so I'm not sure exactly what you are suggesting.

Is that an "additive" like Sta-Bil? That's the only additive I've used before. Up until last year I never added anything at all and never had a problem with my mower the next season. Now I know better because all you hear anymore is how the "new" fuel is killing machines.
Non-ethanol gasoline is not an option where I live, btw.

Effing tree-huggers.

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 05:47 PM
Lovely.

Could you elaborate on this "SEF" that you have mentioned? I've not heard of it, so I'm not sure exactly what you are suggesting.

Is that an "additive" like Sta-Bil? That's the only additive I've used before. Up until last year I never added anything at all and never had a problem with my mower the next season. Now I know better because all you hear anymore is how the "new" fuel is killing machines.
Non-ethanol gasoline is not an option where I live, btw.

Effing tree-huggers.

SEF is a full fuel that has a 2 year shelf life. another brand for the 2cycles is truefuel or 50mix. it is too expensive to run in equipment year round but for something like a snowblower that you have no idea when or even in some cases if you will need it this year it is a great idea to keep your carb from needing a carb kit. I really recommend it in 2cycle equipment as the last tank or the 4cycle fuel in generators, pumps, and snowblowers.

SEF is the only one that makes it in larger then a quart and in larger quantities as far as I know.

SuperiorPower
03-12-2011, 08:24 PM
I have been hating on ethanol for the past few years. Here are a few articles I have posted in my forum. Some of these are articles I had found online.

Does your Gasoline contain Ethanol? (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,59.0.html)

Small-Engine Makers Voice Worry As EPA Weighs New Ethanol Rule (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,222.0.html)

Stanford Researchers: Ethanol Isn't the Answer (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,242.0.html)

Carburetor Problems Caused By Ethanol (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,288.0.html)

Fuel: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,39.0.html) (from 50 fuel's website, http://www.trufuel50.com)

And finally, How to keep my fuel clean and fresh (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,168.0.html).

W and F, I may have to update my winterizing guides on my Forum with a 50 fuel or similar alternative.

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 09:01 PM
see I do have a few good ideas:) I did not know you carried 50 fuel. Do you sell it to the fire department?

SuperiorPower
03-12-2011, 09:07 PM
see I do have a few good ideas:) I did not know you carried 50 fuel. Do you sell it to the fire department?

Actually, I don't carry it yet. I am currently trying to get them away from their silly "Stihl" mix oil.

You should email or call me sometime. 660-281-1965

Shark1611
03-12-2011, 09:30 PM
Steve I found the only place is about 10 miles at a marina. Not sure how much the gas cost but better than messing up my equipment.

Do you have the option in your area of not using ethanol? It seems it's better to avoid it.

wandfsmall
03-12-2011, 09:55 PM
Actually, I don't carry it yet. I am currently trying to get them away from their silly "Stihl" mix oil.

You should email or call me sometime. 660-281-1965

I thought you were a fan of Stihl.... what do you want to change them to? please do not say amsoil 80 to 1

SuperiorPower
03-12-2011, 10:07 PM
I thought you were a fan of Stihl.... what do you want to change them to? please do not say amsoil 80 to 1

No, I am not necessarily a Stihl fan. I can't hate them too much. I have to fix too many to hate them!

I have never used any Amsoil. I guess they have good 4 cycle oil but I have never used it. I am a BIG believer in Opti-2. I have seen AMAZING results from Opti-2. It is not the miracle mix oil, but darn close to it. Plus, it is universal between everything from 16:1 on up. I have never, in over 15 years of use, seen any problem that was associated with the proper use of Opti-2. It doesn't foul the spark plug and over is just an AWESOME mix oil.

jymie
03-12-2011, 10:30 PM
Opti-2 is probably the best 2 cycle oil on the market IMHO

wandfsmall
03-13-2011, 12:50 AM
see I am not a fan of opti 2cycle oil it does not meet manufactures specs even though they claim it does you would have to mix it 50 to one to do this. we are having enough problems with 2cycle equipment without mixing 80 to 1.

But heres the thing I respect SuperiorPower from what I know of him he seems like a good mechanic, so you now have 2 mechanics with a different opinion on a product.

I had thought you had been working on equipment more then 15 years.

Shark1611
03-13-2011, 09:54 AM
see I am not a fan of opti 2cycle oil it does not meet manufactures specs even though they claim it does you would have to mix it 50 to one to do this. we are having enough problems with 2cycle equipment without mixing 80 to 1.

But heres the thing I respect SuperiorPower from what I know of him he seems like a good mechanic, so you now have 2 mechanics with a different opinion on a product.

I had thought you had been working on equipment more then 15 years.

Man this topic is like Ford vs. Chev. :) I am still mixed on all this information. I do not like the feeling in my gut when using my equipment. Yesterday I ran my Red Max for 45 minutes streight cutting down weeds. I used a aditive Ethanol Shield but from what it sounds like from you guys it would be the same as nothing at all. Drives me nuts that we are in this mess to start with. Dang we can fly to the moon but we cannot fix little things like this! Dog gone tree huggers!!!!!!!!!!!!

wandfsmall
03-13-2011, 11:18 AM
Man this topic is like Ford vs. Chev. :) I am still mixed on all this information. I do not like the feeling in my gut when using my equipment. Yesterday I ran my Red Max for 45 minutes streight cutting down weeds. I used a aditive Ethanol Shield but from what it sounds like from you guys it would be the same as nothing at all. Drives me nuts that we are in this mess to start with. Dang we can fly to the moon but we cannot fix little things like this! Dog gone tree huggers!!!!!!!!!!!!

no it honestly might work, I can just not prove it works or not so I do not push it as of yet.

Golftrick17
03-13-2011, 09:19 PM
Luckly for me one of 2 places in my area is only about 4 miles away, to buy ethanol free gas.

wandfsmall
03-13-2011, 11:31 PM
Actually, I don't carry it yet. I am currently trying to get them away from their silly "Stihl" mix oil.

You should email or call me sometime. 660-281-1965

I will try to remember to call sometime here after my spring rush:) I know your busy as well.

Hedgemaster
03-13-2011, 11:59 PM
I just Googled "SEF fuel"...

http://www.seffuels.com/learn.aspx

Interesting.
I have a few cans of 40:1 mix that I bought at Sears just to have handy in case I should run out of gas for my blower/chainsaw/hedge trimmer at some point.
I wonder if it's "ethanol free" as well? Have to look into that...

I'll have to see if I can locate some of the 4 cycle stuff to throw into my snowblower.
I'm guessing I would want to siphon most of the current gasoline out and then run it to burn up the "bad gas" before adding some of the "canned" stuff, and then run it for a bit with the ethanol free SEF for a bit before storing it.

wandfsmall
03-14-2011, 08:51 AM
I just Googled "SEF fuel"...

http://www.seffuels.com/learn.aspx

Interesting.
I have a few cans of 40:1 mix that I bought at Sears just to have handy in case I should run out of gas for my blower/chainsaw/hedge trimmer at some point.
I wonder if it's "ethanol free" as well? Have to look into that...

I'll have to see if I can locate some of the 4 cycle stuff to throw into my snowblower.
I'm guessing I would want to siphon most of the current gasoline out and then run it to burn up the "bad gas" before adding some of the "canned" stuff, and then run it for a bit with the ethanol free SEF for a bit before storing it.

ok the 40:1 mix you bought will work for what I was talking about. and that is exactly what I would do. If you can not find SEF get some aircraft fuel and use a touch of that, not quite as good but it works.

SuperiorPower
03-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Sorry for the delayed response. It has been a rather long weekend. So, here are my responses....

As far as my 15 years experience, I have been doing this only about 15 years but I had the best teacher ever. My dad. He has over 50 years experience. HE has been using opti-2 exclusively for probably about 20 years (or more). I am sorry for you that you don't agree with me about Opti-2. :D

When I say that Opti-2 is darn near the miracle mix oil, I mean every word of that. I have seen several pieces of 2 cycle equipment resuscitated with the help of Opti-2. Obviously, they were not worthless (except for one scored so bad it had to be spoon fed fuel to run, meaning it would not even pull its own fuel from the tank once it had started).

Here are just a few my favorite things about Opti-2:


One mix oil for all brands/models/mix ratios of 2-cycle engines
Already contains a fuel stabilizer, Optimizer
Contains an additive to protect the cylinder walls, pistons, etc
Is Gasahol (ethanol0 compatible
Is available in packaging to mix from one gallon to hundreds of gallons


I know a dealer who swears by the Ethanol Shield but I have no experience with it myself. I have considered experimenting with it myself.

For those of you who would like to try Opti-2 and can't find it locally, let me know and I will mail you a packet or two for the cost of the oil. If you want larger quantities, let me know, we can arrange that as well.

wandfsmall
03-14-2011, 04:45 PM
I know a dealer who swears by the Ethanol Shield but I have no experience with it myself. I have considered experimenting with it myself.

I know some people that are experimenting with it, I have a feeling we will see the same thing as the opti oil some shops will like it others will not. I think it will be hard to measure results. I am just afraid in selling the ethanol shield we will just be snake oil salesmen, we at least know opti works we might disagree it is the best option but it does work.

SuperiorPower
03-14-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm just curious, what mix oil do you use?

Gls
03-14-2011, 08:01 PM
What are you guys thoughts on stihls new valve system for 2cycles? I was told to only use synthetic mixing oil with 89 octane. Would you use the opti-2 or any other additive in this new system?

wandfsmall
03-14-2011, 09:53 PM
What are you guys thoughts on stihls new valve system for 2cycles? I was told to only use synthetic mixing oil with 89 octane. Would you use the opti-2 or any other additive in this new system?

I personally do not like the 4mix equipment, they have more moving parts and require more upkeep then the 2cycle equipment. As for oil I like the synthetic mixes myself, something like Redmax, or Husquvarna XP. I personally carry the Redmax oil right now.

Shark1611
03-19-2011, 09:02 AM
Luckly for me one of 2 places in my area is only about 4 miles away, to buy ethanol free gas.

How much are you paying for the fuel?

Shark1611
04-24-2011, 07:52 PM
Are most of you all using regular gas or premium for your 2 and 4 cycle equipment? Is premium better if you are will to pay more for the fuel? :confused:

krunchkat99
04-27-2011, 09:41 AM
I have started using premium because it does not contain ethanol, only the regular and medium grade have the ethanol added here in Atlantic Canada. Don't know if this is the case in the rest of Canada or U.S. Before ethanol I used all regular.

Shark1611
04-28-2011, 08:42 PM
I have started using premium because it does not contain ethanol, only the regular and medium grade have the ethanol added here in Atlantic Canada. Don't know if this is the case in the rest of Canada or U.S. Before ethanol I used all regular.

Thank you I was not aware of this.

Hedgemaster
04-28-2011, 11:03 PM
Heh. I forgot to upload it from my phone, but I took a funny picture at the gas pump today.

I'll post it up later.

$85 for 22 gallons of gas is painful.

Shark1611
05-07-2011, 10:52 PM
Heh. I forgot to upload it from my phone, but I took a funny picture at the gas pump today.

I'll post it up later.

$85 for 22 gallons of gas is painful.

Yes it is killing us but I hope it pays off in less repairs. Thank you!

Hedgemaster
05-07-2011, 10:58 PM
Yes it is killing us but I hope it pays off in less repairs. Thank you!


Heh. that was for regular unleaded.

It's up to $3.99 most places and one station near me is at $4.10/reg. unleaded.




Crap. I forgot about the photo...



http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac64/Pepwalker2/Misc%20Stuff/IMAG1704.jpg

Does that about sum things up?

Dragger
05-08-2011, 06:40 AM
Sorry about the short post I was pretty sick yesterday, Ethanol is a problem and will be a problem for a while. Your best bet to avoid problems is to

1. Use Ethanol free fuel www.pure-gas.org (http://www.pure-gas.org) can help you find a gas station.

2. shake the gas can before you fill the trimmer.

3. Use a quality fuel mix, not the crap you buy at a box store or the ones that look like ketchup packets.

4. Use Star Tron stabilizer in your fuel if it is stored for any length of time.

5. Use premixed fuel such as SEF at the end of the season as your last tank for storing your equipment.


Ethanol does a few things to the engine

1 it dries out your carb gaskets
2 it dissolves your fuel lines and plugs your carburetor
3 it separates your gas causing your cylinder walls to scare from running to lean
4 it draws water into your gas causing your engine to be hard to start and possibly run like crap

Just a few words on the issue as the boating community has been dealing with this for years

1)Most fuel hoses made after 1984 and marked with SAE J1527 are designed to withstand ethanol. Check for wear, cracks and brittleness.

2)Pick up a supply of fuel filters to absorb deposits that are loosened from the fuel system. After a few months of use the filters may not have to be changed as often. Consider installing a water separating filter kit if you do not already have one.

3)Your engine might run rough or the mixture ratio might be off. You (or your mechanic) might need to tinker with the idle adjustment screws, and low and high-speed air/fuel adjustments.

Steve
05-09-2011, 05:29 PM
LOL as I scrolled down through the posts, I saw the photo and thought Breeze must have done that LOL but I was wrong.

Hedgemaster
05-09-2011, 10:44 PM
lol As I Scrolled Down Through The Posts, I Saw The Photo And Thought Breeze Must Have Done That Lol But I Was Wrong.

(grin)

For some reason, the smiley isn't working...

wandfsmall
05-10-2011, 07:54 AM
I do not recommend adjusting a carburetor without a good tac. It however is cheaper to pay a mechanic to set your carburetor then to buy a tac so it might be a good idea just to take it to the shop to set the unit. Otherwise you run the risk of destroying the unit. Also as the the fuel line that is can handle ethanol I see that printed on the boxes but in reality I sell way to much fuel line for newer trimmers for this line to be handling this quality fuel we have.