View Full Version : Decided to try a new angle....

The Cleaning Doctor
02-16-2011, 12:29 AM
I just finished the page for Link Building Packages and the tweak or spin is on item 6. Co-Op link building.

Basically if you have 3-5 buddies that want to split the cost with you then I add $40 to the package because of the split billing. So for the 1000 link package you get 250 link submissions per month for $35 per month and 2 out of the 4 people will end up with 2 .edu or .gov links.

All of the .edu or .gov links are placed manually and verified active.

02-16-2011, 12:25 PM
WOW there is certainly a lot of stuff going on at your site! The amount of things a business owner should be doing to promote their site is mind boggling!.

The Cleaning Doctor
02-16-2011, 05:35 PM
You ever wonder why service magic, merchant circle and angies list are at the top of the heap? It is because they do all of these things to keep their sites at the top.

I was involved in an industry and on a board with what can be called one of the industry leaders. He kept telling people to link to his site as it will help out their SEO rankings by linking to him.

What actually happened was that with all the same niche sites linking to his site, he became the authority in the eyes of Google. It helped theirs some but not as much as all their links helped him. Kind of a sneaky way to get links if you ask me.

Everything that I do, you can do yourself if you have the time. There are even going to be a few products listed that can help with the process but it still takes time of which most people don't have any to spare.

02-16-2011, 07:42 PM
I use servicemajic it is a good tool to use

02-17-2011, 11:19 AM
What actually happened was that with all the same niche sites linking to his site, he became the authority in the eyes of Google. It helped theirs some but not as much as all their links helped him. Kind of a sneaky way to get links if you ask me.

Is there anyway lawn care business owners can do this too? If so, where would they have to be linked from in order to become an authority like that?

02-17-2011, 02:36 PM
Just so you are aware....Google and yahoo will ban your site from their searches if they find you with X number of links back that have little bearing on your site. BTW....you can buy 25,000 links back for $3.00 but is it worth not being listed with the main two search engines that most use everyday?

Using good content and the correct tags will gain you the ranking. If you really want to get up there, both Google and Yahoo have paid placement ad programs.

The Cleaning Doctor
02-17-2011, 03:23 PM
You are right, done incorrectly can punish you but with that have also seen sites that people have blasted with tens of thousands of links only to be punished and then after a period of time they were back and stronger than ever. If you got banned for x number of links then facebook and twitter would be banned because of all the links to them along with thousands of other sites with hundreds of thousands of links to them. Your information is a little off.

It all starts with your domain age, not when you bought it but when Google first became aware of it. It is a matter of how the links are built and where they are built.

The sites that sell so many backlinks for so cheap tend to be the owners of those sites and most of them tend to be spam sites that the search engines recognize and discount. The key is diversity of link sources and the correct use of keywords as anchor tags.

Steve it would be like you telling everyone to link to you because it will help their seo. So everyone does and in the end you get more help than they do.

You can never have too many links but you can gain too many too fast so that it is not natural.

I have a site I am working for a customer right now and I am building the links at a fairly fast rate because of the site age and because they were sitting back at 200 and above so they did not show up until page 21. If they got hurt a little in the beginning, big deal they were not being found anyhow. Now some dropped from 787 to 0 and now they are coming back strong. I will post the entire process results after we are done.

02-17-2011, 03:36 PM
Ok...go ahead and give the advice and see where it gets peoples sites. Twitter and Facebook are a breed of their own and follow different rules altogether. Google and Yahoo are paying them big bucks to advertise on their sites and tweets and making millions a month doing it.

Now for the rest of us....those rules don't apply unless you are making Google and yahoo millions of dollars a month. Personally I don't fall into that category but I do have over 4 thousand unique visitors a day coming to one of our sites and this was done using the correct content, well placed tags, ad-words campaigns and much much more....hard work, not some scheme to try and cheat the system.

Do whatever you want and if it pans out...ok? But I equate it to me telling a customer they are going to receive a high quality part made in the USA that is OEM only to send them a Aftermarket from China. Selling the aftermarket is fine as lone as it is stated as such.

02-18-2011, 01:32 PM
I appreciate all of your views here.

What are some of the big no-no's lawn care business owners need to be watching out for? I think some members are going to be reading this and saying OH GOSH I don't want to get banned and then they won't try any of these ideas.

So are there any things that members need to be looking out for?

The Cleaning Doctor
02-18-2011, 07:22 PM
Well all I can say is that these tactics are used by thousands of companies around the world and on millions of web sites. If you are going to make you need to determine how fast you need that to be. If you want to grow slowly then that is your choice. I personally choose to get in and get it built.

Is there a risk... sure there is but you took a bigger risk going into business. I personally want the site to grow quickly and stay there. With Deck Staining Tips, people are already starting to take notice.... others that are competing for the web space.

I have software available that will look at your competitors and see what they are doing that has them ranked so high. I can tell you if they have a link somewhere and if that link is still active.

Some may think that it is dirty tactics and cheating but is it any worse than keeping an eye on your competition locally? People only consider it cheating when they don't think of it.

How may times have you thought of a competitor cheating to get work? I'll bet some of you have and then thought about it and realized that it was a really keen idea.

Everything that I do is within the rules but I will admit that it sometimes is pushing the envelope. How you approach each and every site is different. You have to look at where they stand and their competition to set a plan in place.

Every one thinks that Google is smarter than everyone else. Well for every Google employee there are 4 people finding the flaws.

Just like in sports, you find the weakness and exploit that as long as you can.

You all can read on the web what the experts are doing. Link building is the backbone to the web, the more links you get the more votes for being a good site. As simple as that.

You don't think so, Google "brick sealing tips" and tell me what is at #3. It's mine and I have done nothing with it yet except load the wordpress software and put out a couple of links. How is this an incorrect way to promote a site?

Someone will come back with well if everyone does it that still does not make it right. Well you would be correct but what it does not consider is that now you are on a level playing field. These big companies that dominate the web do not do it because they have better content than you do but rather a better seo strategy and the funds to implement.

Gotta get back to work now have fun.

02-18-2011, 09:16 PM
I need a serious overhaul on my website..

What is this option you said i can pay to google for placement?

Anyhow, i really need to figuere out how to get to the top of the searches.

02-18-2011, 09:44 PM
I need a serious overhaul on my website..

What is this option you said i can pay to google for placement?

Anyhow, i really need to figuere out how to get to the top of the searches.

pay per click ads from google other then that I am not aware of anyone that can deliver on top searches

02-18-2011, 10:13 PM
pay per click ads from google other then that I am not aware of anyone that can deliver on top searches

THis whole thread is about getting to the top, however im not understanding it too much.

02-18-2011, 10:31 PM
has anyone noticed that the website we are talking about has a virus according to google.

Websites are a difficult thing, a few tips that I found is fill as many pages with data as you can. Do not copy anyone else's work, google will give you a penalty if you are word for word just like another site. And submit a site map using google webmaster tools. Here is a link to webmaster tools just in case.

The Cleaning Doctor
02-19-2011, 07:42 AM
Since we are talking about my site, I would like you to show proof that there is a virus. Spreading lies about a site is not good. I always check several different ways to ensure there is nothing.... Including the link that you gave which is web master tools. If you are thinking about the popup that was not working in IE, that was not a virus but an application that did not work in IE but worked in the other browsers. Google is not reporting any viruses. I have attached screen shots from 3 different sources. All my sites come out with the same results. If you have proof of a virus I would gladly check it out.

pay per click ads from google other then that I am not aware of anyone that can deliver on top searches

I just proved it can be done in another thread and with a single page of crap content and it was done in 48 hours. Can they be guaranteed, no but you stand a very good chance. A better chance than leaving your site up to it's own devices.

02-19-2011, 08:52 AM
first off it was not my intention to spread lies about your site. I said according to google as it could be a false positive. Second I agree with your search engine tactics but you can be penalized for some of them them.

I attached the screenshot of what I got today.

This is what I am guessing google was pointing to

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://marketing.avantuspayments.com/in.cgi?default" ></script>

The Cleaning Doctor
02-19-2011, 11:03 AM
You did not place a virus on here by posting a photo. Everything checks fine with my AV.

Answered this in the other thread. As for being penalized, if done incorrectly yes but I am VERY careful that does not happen. Always lean towards the cautious side. I find that after about the fourth month of doing the link building, your are hard pressed to damage the results because you have so many links out there and now Google just naturally assumes that others are helping you spread the word about the site.

The object is to get as many links from as many domains that you can using your keywords.

02-20-2011, 12:59 AM
@ Doc....Windfsmall is correct that there is a problem. When you click on the link to visit your homepage...it kicks you to a site selling medications. Not sure if Steve's site got hijacked or yours.

Google ad-words placement- Don't approach it until you are somewhat educated on what it can or can't do for you. You have a better chance if you are trying to get top billing for a specific location doing specialized work than selling something to people everywhere.

Next...ask friends and family what key words they would use to find what you offer....mowing, tree pruning, landscaping and so on. These are the keywords your going to pay for with Ad-words from Google. Ok...so what exactly am I paying for??? Your paying for per-click advertising meaning when someone clicks on a link to go to your site..it costs you money.

This in no way shape or form means business or a sale!!! Just that someone has clicked a paid link and hopefully landed on your site. You still have to sell yourself & business through your site to translate that into a sale. Watch your website stats as some not so honest people will pay others to click links all day on their site to make money.

Then the bidding war begins of who is willing to pay the most per click on those keywords. What I can tell you is that with one of our business...bidding going over 3.00 a click is not uncommon. So set a budget for the day,week and the highest your willing to bid on any keyword. Google does the rest including collecting your monies into their coffers.

I know its a lot to adsorb so do a little research and if you have specific questions, I would be more than happy to help. Also check around for first time accounts and free (Usually 100.00) from Google to get you hooked...I mean started.

02-20-2011, 12:36 PM
For those reading this post, it seems the virus issue was resolved on that site.

02-20-2011, 02:25 PM
no steve fixed the problem I caused. I did not think the post would allow javascript... I was wrong.

here is a nice post about jcpenny doing what we were talking about.


basically here are the facts, a lot of sites are doing it... it is not illegal but google does not like it.

The Cleaning Doctor
02-20-2011, 04:37 PM
That is exactly why you start slow and build carefully. It's all about the process.

02-21-2011, 06:11 PM
here is a nice post about jcpenny doing what we were talking about.


Holy crap! What a story! That is amazing! Did you see the charts of their web traffic drop after google caught wind of what they were doing! It seemed to go from close to 200,000 visits a day down to maybe 2,000?

02-22-2011, 03:15 AM
That's kind of what I was trying to explain in an earlier post.... That if you would rather spend your time trying to scheme and outdo(cheat)than putting in the effort to do it right...eventually you will get caught. What bothers me the most is that you have web developers out there still doing this and the one who really pays is the business owner that no longer shows up in the search engines that hired them. They walk with the cash.

What I try to tell my clients is Content...Content...Content. Two well placed paragraphs on your home page with the correct keywords and descriptions will gain you ranking. The more descriptive the better especially if you are trying to gain customers locally. An example is a contractor trying to get landscaping work in Yonkers NY.

If he or she lists her business as looking for work in New York for a location, you now have more competition. Now you narrow it down to NYC, the list gets smaller...but is still huge. You take it down to Yonkers...the list narrows even more...see where I am going? Even Yonkers is pretty big and you could narrow it down even more by a specific area in Yonkers.

Same thing with the service you provide....you can do it all, but when it comes to the search engines you need to find the area that is not over populated with businesses doing the same. Do a few searches to see where there are fewer results and capitalize on it. Again...it requires work on your part if your going it alone.

The Cleaning Doctor
02-22-2011, 10:08 AM
LOL.... You still don't get it.

The whole thing is to make it look natural.

Let's look at 1000 links per month.

It is natural that as the word spreads about your site so will the # of people spreading the word about your site.

Well with 1000 links that only comes out to less than 34 links per day.

Any human can create 34 links per day. The problem lies in the time it takes to find the sites and place the links. It would take you hours to do this where I have the resources to do this in minutes.

Another way is to start with 5 links for the first few days and then increase the number every 2-3 days until you reach 1000 for the month or build 34 the first couple of days then skip a day and double the # then back to 34 per day skipping days here and there.

The problem with JCP was that they blasted out hundreds of thousands of links and did not do it in a natural manner. It is easy to tell that it is automated in that way. The other thing is they did this day in and day out where most of the time you can do the link building for 4-6 months and then stop until or if the rankings start to drop.

These guys that you see at the top of the search engines selling you books and stuff on how to rank your website did not get there because of their content.

Another thing is that the NY Times tipped off Google because their algorithm did not catch the link building. Their algorithm did not work or they would not have had to manually intervene. They are just covering their butts.

I agree that link building is not needed for everyone, like Gulfport does not need it but someone in Orlando or Atlanta may need it. I have just told 2 people that they did not need the link building but rather a rebuild of their site. I have also said before in other threads that it does not make sense to try and rank for lawn mowing when you do all your work in Nashville unless you are a franchise and then it is not up the the individual franchise.

Like I have said, it is all about how you build the links not how many links. You could sit down at your computer every day and build links and that is natural because it is your site. The problem comes with not being able to run the business. You could hire someone to sit in the office and do the same thing. Or you could hire an outside company to do it for you. Now I would like to know how you can consider that cheating. If someone hires out the building and designing to a professional, I guess you would consider that cheating also because they should know seo.

Gotta go for now.

02-23-2011, 02:24 PM
This is fascinating because it makes you wonder. With limited resources, is it better to build content or build back links?

Maybe a mixture of both?

The Cleaning Doctor
02-23-2011, 04:54 PM
If you are in a competitive area you need both. Areas with little competition can get away with good content but content alone will not work if your back end SEO is off. i.e. page titles and meta tags.

02-24-2011, 04:23 AM
Your first step needs to be a website that looks good (eye appeal) and has enough information for your prospective customer to make an informed decision of whether to contact or hire you. This step needs to be completed first!

Make it a couple of paragraphs that tell people who you are and what you have to offer. Use as many Keywords as possible in those two paragraphs as to help the search engines spider your site to rank it based on keywords. Have other people that you know will give you an honest opinion to take a look to see what they think before advertising it.

Know your target audience and what they need to know to hire you. Are you doing residential or commercial or both? Is there a contract involved? If so, you may want to post a copy on your site for these people to read. What extras do you offer? Gardening, planting flowers, pruning and so on. Look...you know your business best!

Once that is completed, you need to do or have someone do some back-end programming in the code listing keywords, how often to re-index the site and so on.

Once you have that done...now your ready to try and get some traffic....customers. If you don't have the above completed first, they will come and go just as quickly never to return. Submit your sites to the major search engines.

Make sure all your printed material and signs have your web address. Don't think it would make much of a difference? An example of this is with all the new phones and their capabilities that we had a customer that saw our truck picking up a customers mower the other day. He saw the web address on the side of the truck and punched it in on his phone to take him to our website.

There was enough information on the site for him to make an informed decision of wanting us to do a service on his mower. A simple call to our driver to have him turn around and go back a few blocks made us more money and another customer. You really need to tie everything together so that it all works together.

Having a sign in the front yard as your mowing for passing motorists to see or having your truck and trailer in plan view with your web address, phone number large enough to read at a distance is some of the best advertising you can get. The more traffic going by, the better! Do every job like you were going to use it as examples for possible future customers.

Hope that helps a little

02-28-2011, 03:33 AM
I see where Google just changed the way you do searches. It now has little reflection on link building and more on content. Google users became tired of all the crap when trying to find relevant answers and content to their searches.

The people and business that decided to try and play the system are now crying foul because they are being dropped to the bottom and no where to be seen. TY Google!

The Cleaning Doctor
02-28-2011, 06:16 AM
The change only affected less than 12% and the ones that are crying are the ones that were building thousands of links once again. They did not punish anyone in particular, what they did was lower the value of some types of links that people relied on too heavily. Sites that were just copies of other sites were lowered in value. Article directory sites, the value of a link from those sites dropped and for good reason. This is the link that affected sites the most, even the ones that did not hire anyone to write their articles.

The value of a link has not changed. What has changed is where you need to get that link from.

03-01-2011, 04:36 PM
Your first step needs to be a website that looks good (eye appeal) and has enough information for your prospective customer to make an informed decision of whether to contact or hire you. This step needs to be completed first!

Make it a couple of paragraphs that tell people who you are and what you have to offer.

If you are selling lawn care services, do you find it is wise to have information on your site about different lawn related issues? What the symptoms are and how to solve them or is that too much info?

Or is it better to show the end result? Maybe showing a new hardscape project or landscape project?

Do you think it helps to sell by showing all the steps in between the start and finish of a project or is that just too much info?

The Cleaning Doctor
03-01-2011, 04:52 PM
Steve that is going to depend entirely on the customer. There are some that want an about us page to read and there are others that will just not care who you are. A little of both seems to be the right mix