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picframer
07-22-2010, 03:29 PM
Attached is a file from our dept of Agriculture for two lawns I sent in, the one titles Peter has me, my soil provider and my seed provider baffled. I have sprayed this lawn several times with our organic products and seeded using three grass seeds, none of which have we ever had issues with.

So lets back up.

Client calls in May, wants a better looking lawn, have a look, mainly weeds, we suggest tilling, level, add turf dressing, seed, use our sprays. It has worked on every lawn we have done.

Since then we have tried two other seeds, one from our sod provider the other from our soil provider, nothing, no green at all.

As you can see the results are good yet nothing will grow, any ideas?

Andy

Steve
07-22-2010, 04:40 PM
Are these properties right next to each other or is there some other common geographic anomolly that you have been able to notice?

MountainViewGreenskeeper
07-22-2010, 05:53 PM
As you can see the results are good yet nothing will grow, any ideas?

When you say nothing I guess you really mean nothing so its just a dirt lot?

Is it sand or clay soil?

picframer
07-22-2010, 07:48 PM
Are these properties right next to each other or is there some other common geographic anomolly that you have been able to notice?

No they are quite a distance apart, I know what the issue is with the second one, it's the first property Peter that has us all baffled

picframer
07-22-2010, 07:50 PM
When you say nothing I guess you really mean nothing so its just a dirt lot?

Is it sand or clay soil?

Neither, the soil is excellent, then we placed Organic Turf Dressing to give what we were doing a boost, it has worked every time. These samples that I send are taken from about 4" down, from 10 different spots on the property. The results received make me more confused then ever as the soil appears in the report to be great, it looks great, feels excellent, has had everything done by the book yet it will not germinate seed and I know the client is following our water suggestions.

The lawn if you will at the moment is barren except for about 10% weeds so our Corn Gluten dealt with weeds but I can't get grass to grow, it honestly makes no sense at all, my soil provider came out for a look and in his 35 years in this business had never seen anything like it.

Go across the street to a place we did in April and it looks like a golf course, process is the same at both places.

picframer
07-22-2010, 08:13 PM
As a background in 2005 the client hired a company who put three tandum loads of organic top soil in, I don't buy from the company used but I know them well, this would have given a 6 to 8" base, beautiful grass year one, some weeds year two, he used Weed and Feed, weeds were gone but grass was slow to grow, by the time he contacted me in the sprint as he saw what we did across the street from him, it was weeds starting and next to no grass, less than 10%. Generally a tilling, seed, top dressing roll, spray works, I say generally but honestly this is the first time I haven't been able to bring a lawn to attention.

swstout
07-22-2010, 09:51 PM
What I see is that:
Organic matter is too low. Idea is greater than 25%

The soil has aluminum toxicity (1058 and 875 ppm) should be less than 100. Increasing pH will help

Sulfur is adequate but the soil pH is to low for plants to utilize it

Your report doesnít give a C:N Ratio. Should be 15:1 to 20:1. From what I see, Iím guessing your carbon ratio is too low

I would try to increase pH to 7.0 and then lower is to 6.5 to 6.6 after a season. The higher pH will decrease the aluminum toxicity.

I read an article about adding crushed charcoal to topsoil or before tilling would increase the C ratio. Carbon in the soil (brown organic matter) becomes the home for the soil organisms)

Microbial profile Ė

10,000 to 20,000 species of bacteria per gram.
Aerobic bacteria populations should be between 100 million to 10 billion CFU/gdw
Aerobic bacteria should outnumber anaerobic bacteria by ratio of 10:1 or more.
Pseudomonas bacteria populations should be between 1 thousand to 1 million CFU/gdw
Nitrogen-fixing bacteria populations should be between 1 thousand to 1 million CFU/gdw
Yeasts and fungi populations should be between 1 to 10 thousand CFU/gdw
Actinomycetes populations should be between 1 to 100 million CFU/gdw
Hope this helps
Steve

MountainViewGreenskeeper
07-23-2010, 12:21 AM
Neither, the soil is excellent, then we placed Organic Turf Dressing to give what we were doing a boost, it has worked every time. These samples that I send are taken from about 4" down, from 10 different spots on the property. The results received make me more confused then ever as the soil appears in the report to be great, it looks great, feels excellent, has had everything done by the book yet it will not germinate seed and I know the client is following our water suggestions.

The lawn if you will at the moment is barren except for about 10% weeds so our Corn Gluten dealt with weeds but I can't get grass to grow, it honestly makes no sense at all, my soil provider came out for a look and in his 35 years in this business had never seen anything like it.

Go across the street to a place we did in April and it looks like a golf course, process is the same at both places.

I know it the dumb question but you said it so here is the question. When was the Corn Gluten applied? And could that be causing a problem?

But steve seems to be correct about the aluminum levels.

Aluminum - Aluminum is not an essential nutrient for plants. At elevated levels it can be extremely toxic to plant roots and limit the plantís ability to take up phosphorus. Extractable aluminum increases greatly at soil pHís below 5.5. Proper liming, however, will lower aluminum to acceptable levels. Aluminum sensitivity varies greatly with plant type. Acid-loving plants, such as rhododendrons, can tolerate very high aluminum levels. Lettuce, carrots and beets are very sensitive. Hydrangea, a non-sensitive plant, produces blue flowers at low pH and pink flowers at high pH due to the effect of aluminum on pigment formation(from: http://www.umass.edu/plsoils/soiltest/interp1.htm

Also I dont know if this has anything to do with you but this site talks about chemtrails of some sort that effected a farms alluminum levels. http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html

picframer
07-23-2010, 04:21 AM
Corn Gluten is spplied before tilling, it would/could slow the germination process however it was sprayed almost 7 weeks ago now with Corn Gluten so it should be deep in the soil, what I don't understand is even the corn Gluten has not been an issue at other sites.

Here is an image of a place we did across the street, it was done one week prior to this one and the same process was uses as this lawn had the same issues.

The Aluminum is a different site (Gary's), it is a lawn we are looking at fixing, all the levels for the lawn in question are such that seed should germinate, I am really tempted to try Timothy and Clover, when all else fails it grows anywhere.