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UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 12:16 AM
ok, i wrote once before about this place
a retirement community in NJ that is on 600 acres, and needs lawn maintenance.
The contract was offered to my father, who has no intentions of going to where the place is located and running it, he wants me to run it.

why am I writing, because we are bumping heads on payment matters. Who gets what?

OK, here are the facts, The place is worth about a million and a half per year,plus the houses are all individually responsible for there own work, so if they want mulch, or pruning, or a sidewalk, thats extra money on top of the contract.

Now, my father wants to handle all of the overhead costs, and pay me 100,000. per year to run it. So He would be profiting about a million a year after costs, and not even see the place all year. He would stay up north and run his current business, and just get the check.

Is that fair just because his name is on the contract.

we met today to discuss this, and I told him that I wanted half of the profit, and he would have to come down twice a week so i could have 2 days off. He said no, so i would be doing all the work, and managing a 10 man crew, and only making 100 grand per year

I know thats not chump change, but considering what the place is worth.

What should I be getting, is he right with his numbers?

am i right?

What would you guys take if you where in my shoes?

tiedeman
09-12-2006, 10:24 AM
Whos equipment is being used? *Who will be held responsible if payment isn't received from the community? *Whos insurance is going to cover the work? *Those are some major questions to ask.

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 11:33 AM
an upfront 15% of the contract was requested to cover all equipment and startup costs, so we were gonna buy all of the equipment and startup expenses from that.

However, the insurance, and risks, of everything would be him. I would be there each day running it, but the insurance, and billing would come form him

tiedeman
09-12-2006, 12:09 PM
Now would the $100,000 just cover you, and not employees?

Break it down more for me such as:
1. What is the gross income?
2. What are the fuel and maintenance costs?
3. What are the equipment costs?
4. What are the employee costs?
5. What is the the insurance cost?
6. How many hours each week is going to be on this property?

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 01:02 PM
we dont have a final number on the contract yet

we figured it off 1.2 million gross

which we figured profit after all expenses would be $625,000

thats after payroll, insurance, everything except me

he wants to give me 100 grand a year
and pocket $525 grand a year

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 01:05 PM
thats assuming its worth 1.2 million gross, if its worth say 2 million
i would still only get 100 grand and he would pocket the rest
I just dont see how its fair for him to not ever even see the place, and profit all that money off my work.

I understand his name is on the line, but is it really worth that much?

tiedeman
09-12-2006, 04:03 PM
How many hours will you working on that property during the year?

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 05:46 PM
6 days a week, 9 hours a day, 9 months a year
plus snow falls for which i would have to be on call

tiedeman
09-12-2006, 07:43 PM
I personally feel that $100,000 for the year is very goood.

Lets consider this, you have no costs at all and you make $20 an hour working, which is very good considering no costs to you.

$20 x 9hrs a day = $180 a day
$180 x 6 days = $1,080 a week
$1,080 x 4 weeks = $4,320 a month
$4320 x 9 months = $38,880 a year

Now that does not include snow removal, but I still think $100,000 is well worth. I personally think anything above $50,000 is worth it

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 09:23 PM
im not really arguing that working the schedule i woul be working wouldnt be worth it for 100 grand

what im arguing is why he gets over a million for sitting home

im turning the offer down, and im going to submit my own proposal. Which pretty much kills his chances already.

He barely knows how

Steve
09-12-2006, 09:26 PM
ACK!

Won't that cause huge turmoil though with you and him?

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-12-2006, 09:57 PM
there has always been huge turmoil between me and him

Steve
09-12-2006, 10:07 PM
Well here is my view.

What if you just don't factor in how much he is making? Would it then be a good deal for you?

What I am afraid might happen is this. You submit your own bid, your father finds out and he cuts you out of it and then you don't win with your bid because what ever reason, maybe "you aren't in your 50's or whatever."

Then you would be out with both.

Why not do this and if it works out it could further help fund your growth?

What's your view?

tiedeman
09-12-2006, 11:12 PM
I agree with Gopher. Try not to think about what he actually making, instead think of all the equipment, expenses, and turmoil he has to deal with. Imagine yourself as an owner right now with all of the paperwork, equipment maintenance, overhead, etc that you have to deal with. Real headache right? Now imagine taking all of that away and still making really good money.

If you are worried that he might stiff you sign an agreement with him. Make him pay you a weekly paycheck. If he missed a paycheck, then you are done with the work, and now he is stuck with the hassle of trying to find someone else.

What does he want to pay you though? Does he want to pay you only $100,000 or less?

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-13-2006, 01:00 AM
his offer was exactly 80 grand

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-13-2006, 08:51 AM
To me, thats not worth it
I shouldnt be saying this anyway, but for sake of arguement, I do close to that now, and only do 3 full days of lawn maintenance. So I would be working 6 days a week, to make the same money that i make if I currently work six days a week, only difference, is no overhead worries.

I always tell myself, that unless an offer is more than I could make myself in the next 5 years, its not worth it. So, the way I see it, The minimum I would take is 350,000 per year.

tiedeman
09-13-2006, 03:53 PM
Go to your father and say exactly then $350,000 or no deal. I personally feel that $100,000 is great though.

Butif you're heart isn't into doing it, then don't do it. But I would not go behind your fathers back and bid it though. Let us know what you decide

maelawncare
09-14-2006, 12:18 AM
Man the way i see it. You need to pull your head out of your arse. I know that i have no idea what your relationship with your father is. But if you are considering back stabing him, when he is offering you a VERY GOOD DEAL! You are the one screwing him. Not the other way around.

This is how i think of people who dont own a business. They have it easy, they dont have haeadaces like we do. When they get off at 6pm, they are OFF. They dont contiune to worry whats going on the next dayy, week, month. Weither or not that bill was paid, that guy has paid you.

You are going to give up making $41 an hour because you want more. YOUR A FREAKING IDOIT. Tell your dad i'll take the position.

UnitedEnvironment.com
09-15-2006, 04:34 PM
well, that was a heated response if i ever did see one.

First off, before you go getting all bent out of shape here. I currently own a business that does very well for only being around 4 years. As a matter of fact I do well enough that I know for a fact that I can profit more than his offer per year within two years. Im fairly close as is and I dont need to work 6 days a week to do it. Currently I do 3 days a week lawn maintenance, and 3 days a week construction.
Granted, I would be elmininating the headaches that come along with running a business. However I worked with my father since I was six, there was a very distinct reason why I left then.

I wont bore you with the details of our relationship, but on a business end, I was working over 60 hours a week, running a 3 man crew for under $600 a week.
Now you seem the type that would consider that goos money too.

The thing is, I like running my own business. I like the headaches and the stress, I thrive on it. So having that removed from the job may simplify things, but for me it also makes it boring.

I like challenges, and dealing with stessfull situations. Along with my Landscaping company I am also running a part time film production crew. Which to be honest, I plan on making my full time career down the line.

So I will refer him to your post, and he can make you his lacky. Anyone, (in my humble opinion) willing to work like a puppet for 80 grand, while someone else sits home and profits a million, needs to get a wake up call.

Why should I take 80 thousand when i can take a million by myself?

Steve
09-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Quote[/b] ]Why should I take 80 thousand when i can take a million by myself?
Anthony,

I am all for you making the million yourself, I just wanted to point out the down side and make sure you were ok if that happened. If you are ok with it, then go for it.

You have a ton of energy and drive and I know you will be doing greater things in the future.

Keep us posted as to how things go.

tiedeman
09-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Yes, please let us know what you are going to do and how it turns out