PDA

View Full Version : TB 4 stroke WW?


jasonw
05-02-2010, 12:25 AM
Ok so this is the 2nd season for my TB 4 stroke. I have followed the maintenance as per the manual but had a problem with it today. I finished the lawn at a ranch and the owner asked me to cut the dead weeds in front of the coral on my way back to the highway. I got underway but about midway through it just died. It would idle but as soon as you hit the gas it would die. I figured maybe I overheated it so grabbed the old 2 stroke and finished the job. At the next job site I took the 4 stroke back out and it still had the same problem. The only way to get it above idle was to set the choke at about 90% after about 75% of the job was done all of the sudden it revved and now works fine. Any ideas? I thought maybe something stuck in the carb but saw nothing.

stew6371
05-02-2010, 06:31 AM
Which one did you get? Do you have any attachments for it? I was looking at one & wanted some feeback on them. You definately had a fuel issue. Probably like you said, something stuck in the carb that dislodged & cleared out.

jasonw
05-02-2010, 08:42 AM
Which one did you get? Do you have any attachments for it? I was looking at one & wanted some feeback on them. You definately had a fuel issue. Probably like you said, something stuck in the carb that dislodged & cleared out.

I got the TB5755S They have 2 models that I saw I got the one with the gear drive head and strait shaft as apposed to the curved shaft. I have yet to buy any attachments for it but plan on getting them all. I absolutely love it, I think its only 25cc and there is a performance problem using big line like the big red stuff but I usually use the Orange or green line and that works great. It very very quiet, I can use it at 5am and not bother anyone. If you get one though get an aftermarket head for it as the factory dual line head sucks. I replaced the head after 15 minutes of use.

jfloyd54520
05-02-2010, 09:39 AM
I have 2 of them and both did the same thing after 2 years. Soon they will not run at all. Good news its just a valve in the carb. It cost me $20 each to get fixed and they both work great. I like the TB products . I had a craftsman 4 stroke blower that worked great till one day the motor just lost compression. Has anyone used a 4stroke back pack blower ?

stew6371
05-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Where did you get it at? I cant find that model online. Does it have a fixed line head or a tap head?

jasonw
05-02-2010, 11:31 PM
Where did you get it at? I cant find that model online. Does it have a fixed line head or a tap head?

I put a fixed line head on it. I got mine last season at Lowes

stew6371
05-03-2010, 06:11 PM
How often do you change the line in a fixed line head? What kind of maintanence are you all doing to get these to last so long using them everyday?

Organic Ken
05-03-2010, 09:58 PM
Hey Jason,

How do you like that 4 stroke? I would think that it will not have as much low end tourque and would bog down easier than a 2 stroke. what do you think? I might have to stop by some day and check it out. Mine are echo commercial duty, work great!

TB 57555 is that Troy Built??

Did you catch any rattlers yet this year? Still waiting for the movie, lol!

jasonw
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
Hey Jason,

How do you like that 4 stroke? I would think that it will not have as much low end tourque and would bog down easier than a 2 stroke. what do you think? I might have to stop by some day and check it out. Mine are echo commercial duty, work great!

TB 57555 is that Troy Built??

Did you catch any rattlers yet this year? Still waiting for the movie, lol!

KEN!!!!!! Fancy seeing you here. No I got away from the business. Sold all my breeders and started this lawn care thing lol. Anyway I LOVE the 4 stroke. It purs like a kitten. I can fire it up out front at 4am and not even bug the squirls. Just today I purchased the brush cutter attachment and tiller attachment. I played with them out on the back 40 and they are really cool but not sure how they will handle a real load. I have a property to finish this week some time so the brush cutter will get the real test then. Its only I think 29cc. It dose bog down but so long er the throttle is at about 80% with the blade head it cuts through the little pine trees around here and doesn't skip a beat. I'm going to play with it out back again some time tomorrow mid day. Stop by if you want.

Organic Ken
05-04-2010, 10:29 AM
Cool, I'll try to stop by! I would lke to see that 4 stroke

SuperiorPower
05-04-2010, 11:48 AM
KEN!!!!!! Fancy seeing you here. No I got away from the business. Sold all my breeders and started this lawn care thing lol. Anyway I LOVE the 4 stroke. It purs like a kitten. I can fire it up out front at 4am and not even bug the squirls. Just today I purchased the brush cutter attachment and tiller attachment. I played with them out on the back 40 and they are really cool but not sure how they will handle a real load. I have a property to finish this week some time so the brush cutter will get the real test then. Its only I think 29cc. It dose bog down but so long er the throttle is at about 80% with the blade head it cuts through the little pine trees around here and doesn't skip a beat. I'm going to play with it out back again some time tomorrow mid day. Stop by if you want.

I know it may seem like waste but always run your trimmer at full throttle. The lower the engine RPMs the more likely the clutch is to slip. If the clutch starts slipping it will reduce the clutch life and will cause unnecessary heat, which will cause other parts of the trimmer to fail prematurely.

I continue to recommend running it at full throttle. There are more reasons to always operate your machine at full throttle (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,186.0.html).

FYI, Troy Bilt trimmers are typically manufactured by Ryobi which is amongst the most problematic out there.

Good luck!
Eli

jasonw
05-04-2010, 03:43 PM
I know it may seem like waste but always run your trimmer at full throttle. The lower the engine RPMs the more likely the clutch is to slip. If the clutch starts slipping it will reduce the clutch life and will cause unnecessary heat, which will cause other parts of the trimmer to fail prematurely.

I continue to recommend running it at full throttle. There are more reasons to always operate your machine at full throttle (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,186.0.html).

FYI, Troy Bilt trimmers are typically manufactured by Ryobi which is amongst the most problematic out there.

Good luck!
Eli

Troybilt is manufactured by MTD which I have heard tons of complaints about but my push mower, tractor and this WW are all MTD and on there 2nd season and doing great. I had that one problem with the trimmer but seems to have cleared itself up, for now at least. Nearly all of the complaints of premature failure I have heard are from people who dont follow the recommended maintenance. Like my father they think they can change the oil once every 4.5 years and then file complaints when there stuff breaks. My tractor gets the oil changed every 25 hours with out fail, this is about 2 times per month and will still cut down 5 foot grass like a wildfire. I am assuming the clutches are the same as any other centrifugal clutch, If so I have an ATV with one and it hits full engagement at about 70% throttle meaning no matter if you go 70% or 100% fully engaged is fully engaged and the extra 30% wont help or hurt you, at least this is the case with the 4 wheeler.

That being said I am still confused about our talk about cooling. No matter if attachments are running or not my head temp still tops out at 140ish at a running, cutting idle or full throttle. I'm not sure how reliable a head temp gauge is on determining oil or crankcase temp but I think its safe to assume if the head is holding a steady temp then so is the rest of the motor.

SuperiorPower
05-05-2010, 11:31 AM
Troybilt is manufactured by MTD which I have heard tons of complaints about but my push mower, tractor and this WW are all MTD and on there 2nd season and doing great. I had that one problem with the trimmer but seems to have cleared itself up, for now at least. Nearly all of the complaints of premature failure I have heard are from people who dont follow the recommended maintenance. Like my father they think they can change the oil once every 4.5 years and then file complaints when there stuff breaks. My tractor gets the oil changed every 25 hours with out fail, this is about 2 times per month and will still cut down 5 foot grass like a wildfire. I am assuming the clutches are the same as any other centrifugal clutch, If so I have an ATV with one and it hits full engagement at about 70% throttle meaning no matter if you go 70% or 100% fully engaged is fully engaged and the extra 30% wont help or hurt you, at least this is the case with the 4 wheeler.

That being said I am still confused about our talk about cooling. No matter if attachments are running or not my head temp still tops out at 140ish at a running, cutting idle or full throttle. I'm not sure how reliable a head temp gauge is on determining oil or crankcase temp but I think its safe to assume if the head is holding a steady temp then so is the rest of the motor.

First of all, MTD does own Troy Bilt, but does not make the entire product or not necessarily even the entire product lineup. One example is, they don't make the engines on most of their machines. Another example is the Troy Bilt trimmers which are built by none other than Ryobi. At least last years model was and from what I can tell by the photos it is quite possible it is Ryobi again this year. Either way, Troy Bilt does not make make their own trimmer. They are like Craftsman, whoever can meet their specs for the least amount of money this year....

On the centrifugal clutch note, there is a difference between ATVs and chain saws, trimmers, etc. The difference is, the ATV's clutches typically run in oil. These are known as "wet clutches" and are designed so they will not be as likely to burn up the clutch, etc because the ATV must at times run at low RPMs which will permit the clutch to slip. Trimmers and Chain Saws on the other hand, have a dry clutch. And with that being said, the clutch will still slip and get hot if it is not run at full throttle. The truth of the matter is, the faster you run the engine, the more centrifugal force there is, and thus the better the clutch grips under a load. Running at half throttle will burn up the clutch and like said, will cause premature bearing failure (and possibly shaft failure as well).

On the cooling issue, I am guessing that it may have to do with the fact that the heat can not access the sending unit accurately. I do know that engines get hot under load. What may not be a load for your engine at full throttle may very be a massive load at half throttle. If you look at the power curve of any engine you will see that as the RPMs increase, so does power. With that said, when your engine runs at half throttle there is considerably less power. Its kinda like having a 8 HP engine on your mower instead of a 16 HP engine. The 8 HP engine will be overworked where the load may well be like playing for the 16 HP. So, even if the heat does not seem to be out of range, the cooler you can run your engine, the less the oil will break down. Also, even if the heat does not seem to be excessive, your engine will suffer by having to work hard when it should not even be working under the specific load it is under.

I hope this makes sense.

Eli

jasonw
05-06-2010, 01:31 AM
First of all, MTD does own Troy Bilt, but does not make the entire product or not necessarily even the entire product lineup. One example is, they don't make the engines on most of their machines. Another example is the Troy Bilt trimmers which are built by none other than Ryobi. At least last years model was and from what I can tell by the photos it is quite possible it is Ryobi again this year. Either way, Troy Bilt does not make make their own trimmer. They are like Craftsman, whoever can meet their specs for the least amount of money this year....

On the centrifugal clutch note, there is a difference between ATVs and chain saws, trimmers, etc. The difference is, the ATV's clutches typically run in oil. These are known as "wet clutches" and are designed so they will not be as likely to burn up the clutch, etc because the ATV must at times run at low RPMs which will permit the clutch to slip. Trimmers and Chain Saws on the other hand, have a dry clutch. And with that being said, the clutch will still slip and get hot if it is not run at full throttle. The truth of the matter is, the faster you run the engine, the more centrifugal force there is, and thus the better the clutch grips under a load. Running at half throttle will burn up the clutch and like said, will cause premature bearing failure (and possibly shaft failure as well).

On the cooling issue, I am guessing that it may have to do with the fact that the heat can not access the sending unit accurately. I do know that engines get hot under load. What may not be a load for your engine at full throttle may very be a massive load at half throttle. If you look at the power curve of any engine you will see that as the RPMs increase, so does power. With that said, when your engine runs at half throttle there is considerably less power. Its kinda like having a 8 HP engine on your mower instead of a 16 HP engine. The 8 HP engine will be overworked where the load may well be like playing for the 16 HP. So, even if the heat does not seem to be out of range, the cooler you can run your engine, the less the oil will break down. Also, even if the heat does not seem to be excessive, your engine will suffer by having to work hard when it should not even be working under the specific load it is under.

I hope this makes sense.

Eli


Its dose not make to much sense to me. The CC on my small ATV IS a dry clutch, no different than the one on the WW. As far as the cooling, There is no way possible the heat is not accessing the sending unit. It mounts with a head bolt. The heat hits it just as it hits the head. I agree 100% that heat destroys motors. I over heated and destroyed y last push mower in my back yard when I purchased my house but I disagree that not running at full throttle will over heat an air cooled motor, Especially sence I went through the trouble and expense to install the gauge on my tractor.

SuperiorPower
05-06-2010, 12:45 PM
Its dose not make to much sense to me. The CC on my small ATV IS a dry clutch, no different than the one on the WW. As far as the cooling, There is no way possible the heat is not accessing the sending unit. It mounts with a head bolt. The heat hits it just as it hits the head. I agree 100% that heat destroys motors. I over heated and destroyed y last push mower in my back yard when I purchased my house but I disagree that not running at full throttle will over heat an air cooled motor, Especially sence I went through the trouble and expense to install the gauge on my tractor.

As far as the clutch, anther thing to keep in mind is that your ATV is likely not under the same % of load that the trimmer is.

Now, lets say that at 60% throttle, you have 10 lbs of force of the clutch shoe pushing against the clutch drum. But at full throttle it will have more like 15-20 lbs of force. So it will take a lot more "load" to make the clutch slip when you have almost twice the load that you have to "move". I guess one way to demonstrate would be to say if you have a 10 lb brick on the floor and another 20 lb brick on the floor. The 20 lb brick would be a lot harder to push around (direct side pressure) than the 10 lb brick. In reality, I have no idea what the actual pressure clutch pressure is but simply used those numbers for the scenario.

Truth be know, I am not sure that I can answer exactly how either the heat issue on the mower or the clutch slipping on your trimmer work, I just know from my training and experience that that is the way it works. In Factory update school (for a certain brand of trimmers) a few years ago they were telling us about some of the clutch issues. To top it off, I have seen clutch shoes and clutch drums burned up from running at less than full throttle. And they were not trimming big weeds. This was a cemetery crew and they mowed and trimmed every week. So its not just from trimming at partial throttle under a heavy load. And as far as the part about the heat transfer damaging the bearings and causing premature engine and component failure, I believe this is basically common sense.

Good luck,
Eli