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View Full Version : Tough time deciding on a new Zero turn


Steve's Lawn Care
04-18-2010, 09:47 AM
Alright heres the deal i currently own a dixie chopper silver eagle 50inch cut zero trurn mower. Its an alright mower in some spots but sucks in most( my opinion).First its horrible on hillsides my old residential z was way better on slopes. Second it very very loud even with ear protecton my heads still buzzing after a long day of cutting. 3rd its cut :( pretty much everything about it lol im running the X blades on the mower and its doing better but in thinker grass the clipping disposal is horrible in my opinion, im a perfectionist when it comes to striping and a good clean cut and this mower just isnt cutting it for me i also need a 60inch deck. i did really like the fact that the shoot on the deck could be closed and the fact that the mower would stripe without a striper

I need others opionions major lol dealers just tell me there machine is the best no matter what brand and its very confusing haha

I have looked at pretty much every mower made lol.. but cant decide, i have however narrowed it down. I really liked the john deere z950 havnt got to demo it yet but seems really nice and the dealer is less than a mile from my home.. I also love the Exmark lazer Z only problem is the dealer is more than 50 miles away:( I also really like the scag mower its about 20 miles but super easy to get to. And last the Hustler super z its also about 20 miles way. Price is really not a big thing i just want a mower that does the best job. Any suggestings would really help me out :)

kdexpd
04-18-2010, 10:38 AM
Hey Steve

I have an Exmark Lazer Z 60" and I love it. I am a perfectionist like you and I want my cuts even. The Lazer Z is a smooth mower and I like the fact that it has the Ultra Cut deck, which is the heavy duty welded deck. With the factory tires it's ok on hills, however if you are going to buy one, I'd have the more aggressive tires put on it for slopes. Not the bar-style tires, but the atv tires. I don't care for the bar style tires because all my customers have beautiful turf, and if the ground is even a little wet, you'll leave tread in the dirt and rip turf of the turn arounds. I never come to the end of a row and immediately turn, instead I make a "Y". I think you should go try out an Exmark Lazer Z. The drive may be a bummer, but you'll be getting a quality mower that will last you almost forever, if you take good care of it. I'm not a John Deere man, but have test ridden their zero turns. They are not as smooth as an Exmark, and Lord help you when you need service or parts as they are darn proud of their pretty little green color. Their craftsmanship doesn't impress me much, and their operator controls aren't as nice as the Exmark either. The only thing about an Exmark is they don't come factory with a grass stopper on the chute like your Dixie Chopper does. However you can get it through a dealer, which I highly recommend. Hope this helps as I think Exmark is the leading brand in commercial mowers, and I know you'll be more than satisfied with its performance.

picframer
04-18-2010, 12:05 PM
I have a Deere X997 although we don't use it a lot anymore, I find garden tractors match the quality and allow me to use the equipment to offer a lot more services, you may want to look into the Garden tractors (X series) and expand your service offerings, just a thought.

Steve's Lawn Care
04-18-2010, 09:01 PM
Hey thanks both of U i really like hearing things form ppl that really use the equipment and not sell it. I really like all the machines that i listed and they all have there pros and cons i just have to find the machine that has more pros then cons.. i know no mower will ever be perfect in all conditions i just want one that does best in most lol

CHEESE2009
04-18-2010, 09:23 PM
http://walkermowers.com/

Steve's Lawn Care
04-19-2010, 08:52 PM
ive never seen a Walker mower in really life or ever seen anyone use one so i never considered it.. I know as a fact scag and exmark leave a super clean cut and stripe amazing so im trying to deside between the 2 but anythings a posibility. Do walker mowers hold hills well?

CHEESE2009
04-19-2010, 11:01 PM
ive never seen a Walker mower in really life or ever seen anyone use one so i never considered it.. I know as a fact scag and exmark leave a super clean cut and stripe amazing so im trying to deside between the 2 but anythings a posibility. Do walker mowers hold hills well?

Walker is superior to Scag, though I have never seen an Exmark in action.

on the walker site, the guy/video explains just about everything for each product.

Click, "Model Overview" if you can find it.

I'm looking into the MODEL MB.

Though I have used other models, they leave SUPER perfect stripes. The cut is extremely fine & clean.

These machines are SO easy to handle as well.

The downside is it gets too comfortable, not kidding, it's actually a bummer.

You could totally zone out while using one, then when your done the job, getting off of the machine is the hardest part.

Steve's Lawn Care
04-20-2010, 09:19 PM
hey thanks a lot for the info on the Walker Mowers id love to look more into them the only problem the only dealer i could find is more than 150 miles away:( i would also consider the MB model like U are looking at.. i really would love to just bag all the grass but i would never have anywhere to put it all haha

mark123
04-20-2010, 10:39 PM
I've been going back and forth myself. I really want a Wright Stander but their quality of cut isn't up to par with what I'm used to.
... I have an Exmark Lazer Z 60" ...
Exmark makes excellent stuff. Toro owns Exmark and I do prefer the Toro side. The quality of cut is unmatched in the industry in my opinion.

Exmark had issues with their Triton deck (left a row of stringers, IIRC) so stay away from that deck. I've also heard they are having teething issues with their new Commercial 21. Their 26" was also a flop. Exmark should stay away from the small mower stuff. Just leave it to the Toro guys.

I've used Exmark and Toro and both have excellent quality. Less issues on the Toro end though. I'd say you can't really go wrong with either. I wouldn't choose a mower because of dealer proximity alone.

The pictures on my site are made with a 36" Toro walkbehind with no striping kit.

Steve's Lawn Care
04-21-2010, 09:48 PM
Well after months of reading everything i can find i have come to the conclusion that every make of zero turns have there good and bad qualities. I know that even the best mower will still have some cutting problems when the conditions arnt right. Ever since i could remember i have always wanted a Scag mower i think this is because years ago a lawn company would cut a large yard by my home with a scag turf tiger. I was always so amazed with the stripes the mower left. Im just gona have to demo a few machines and see which one i perfer. thanks for all the imput by everyone it has helped and made me think

Steve
04-22-2010, 10:35 AM
I'd love to hear some of your feedback as you demo the different models.

Keep us posted.

robgee05
04-22-2010, 11:17 AM
What do you think of badboys z turn. Also do you think the standers make for better cut then the sit down zturns. Also engine wise wheres the vanguard BS stand near commercial Kawis??

nickyeper
04-22-2010, 03:48 PM
I have been in business for 7 years and have owned the following; Scag, Ferris, Bobcat-Ransomes, and Exmark. By far the best piece of equipment is the Exmark. I currently use Exmark and will never go to anything else. They are built like tanks, easy to maintain, easy to clean, and are a dream to operate. Leaves grass looking like brand new carpet.

XtreemGreen
04-22-2010, 07:24 PM
Isnt Exmark the #1 selling mower around? They are everywhere around here...

nickyeper
04-22-2010, 08:01 PM
Im not sure but I have come to know many salesmen and techs at different mower dealers that don't even sell Exmark and they tend to agree that they are to top of the line.

Byron3243
04-22-2010, 09:19 PM
I also have a Dixie Chopper Silver Eagle and am having the same delima that you are having I just really dont like it. I have been looking and when I go to buy it will eather be a scag or xmark, but this mower has to pay for itself first. I havant had any complaints from customers yet. The bigest thing I have found is to keep the deck very clean and the x-blades sharp. I put a piece of mud flap under the motor behind the deck to help with striping.

Steve's Lawn Care
04-22-2010, 10:09 PM
I'd love to hear some of your feedback as you demo the different models.

Keep us posted.

well as far as demoing different models we could start with the dixie chopper i already own.. horrible, horrible cut discharge is very poor and clumpy have to double cut a lot. the machine is also horrible on hillside and the Genarac engine is very loud and started puffing out white smoke on start up around the first 30 hours

I have used a Bob cat pro cat mower and although it was a little better on a hillside the cut quality was just as poor.. Form what 2 owners of them told me was that they had a lot of problems with the belts coming off of them

I called the closest exmark dealer today and the salesman was very nice to me we talked for a good 20 min about mowers. I really like the fact that he didnít keep trying to sell me a mower and make promises about how much better the mower was than others he simply told me to try the mower but he guarantied that if i tried it i would buy it. we mainly just talked about other brands and what made them bad and good, he really new his stuff. He told me to try as many different brands as i could and tell him what i thought of them. He kinda laughed when i told him about the mower i have and when i told him the problems i had with it. I was surprised but he recommended that i try a hustler super z he said that it would be the only other brand that would give the same quality i was looking for. He also told me he couldnít say anything bad about the hustler mower because the deck is pretty much the same as exmarks and he said they are truly the best zero turn on hillsides

A very good friend of mine runs a brand new JD 900 series with a 72in deck at a soccer field and he told me to come out one day and cut all the grass i wanted to with it. Hes used all kinda of mowers and said he was surprised and very pleased with the mower all around. It should be a good test because thereís all different kind of grass on the complex along with some good hillsides to test on.

Ive found that watching youtube videos of different brands of mowers doesnt help because in the video they all leave a super clean cut with perfect stripes its actually kinda funny when i watch the dixie chopper video

Steve's Lawn Care
04-22-2010, 10:25 PM
I also have a Dixie Chopper Silver Eagle and am having the same delima that you are having I just really dont like it. I have been looking and when I go to buy it will eather be a scag or xmark, but this mower has to pay for itself first. I havant had any complaints from customers yet. The bigest thing I have found is to keep the deck very clean and the x-blades sharp. I put a piece of mud flap under the motor behind the deck to help with striping.

I really agree with you on keeping the deck clean and the x-blades sharp. The main problem with the deck is just not designed to process large volumes of grass like exmark's ultra cut deck and scags velocity plus. My customers also have never complained only because ive had to do a lot more work to keep the yards looking good. Im lucky because my mower is paid off the only problem is my scag and exmark dealers donít take mowers in on trade. But my JD dealer was willing to give me good money for my mower but I donít wanna make the same mistake and be unhappy with another mower. I could also trade my mower in where I bought it from on a steiner but 16K out the door is a lil steep and I really could use a zero turn more anyway

Byron3243
04-23-2010, 06:55 PM
I really agree with you on keeping the deck clean and the x-blades sharp. The main problem with the deck is just not designed to process large volumes of grass like exmark's ultra cut deck and scags velocity plus. My customers also have never complained only because ive had to do a lot more work to keep the yards looking good. Im lucky because my mower is paid off the only problem is my scag and exmark dealers donít take mowers in on trade. But my JD dealer was willing to give me good money for my mower but I donít wanna make the same mistake and be unhappy with another mower. I could also trade my mower in where I bought it from on a steiner but 16K out the door is a lil steep and I really could use a zero turn more anyway

I totally agree with the design of the deck. It dosent do to terriable bad in the perfect situations, but how often do we get into that. Half my customers are to cheap to have their lawn mowed like it suppose to be done and only wants it done like every two weeks. My mower isnt paid for, but could pay it off anytime, but the intrest rate is so cheap that its almost free. That was part of the reason I bought a dixie chopper. I havent went as far as talking to any dealers yet about any trade ins or anything but i can see why you are stuck on that. A friend of mine just bought a 72 in Hustler Super Z and i ran it some today and I like it, so much better than the one I have, and what a cut compared to the 50 in! He mowes 12 acres on his property and loves it.

groundworks
04-29-2010, 10:17 AM
Your Dixie Chopper should be a very good mower for both striping and holding hills with the proper set-up. For striping first make sure your RPM's are set high enough, should be 3,600 under load. If you don't feel after that the striping us good enough, go with a dual blade adapter or the x-blades. The older choppers (I have an older LX2001) had an adjustable baffle in the front of the deck, I'm not sure if the newer ones do or not, but if so adjust it down more. The added RPM and higher lift from the extra blades should give you very nice stripes plus the lower baffle should prevent blowout and increase deck vacuum. Choppers are known for striping well and having the highest blade tip speed allowed. As for holding hills, I agree with switching to ATV tires or if you are gentle with your turns go for Ag tires. I switched to a bar style on my Rich Convertible and made a world of difference on hills I was sliding down before. A few parts changes and adjustments should make your mower a much better cutting machine, and a LOT cheaper than buying another mower. There's always a stripe enhancement kit, but your mower should stripe pretty well anyway....and a striping kit is also cheaper than getting a different mower.

Byron3243
04-29-2010, 07:14 PM
I will have to look but I dont think any thing underneth my deck is adjustable as i have been under this deck a many times. As far as RPM i run it wide open. I am already using the x-blades. i am running a bar type tire and hate them. I dont have problems turning but you go across a slope and have to go around something as soon as they slip it tears up grass bad. It does help with staying up on them though. I have thought very seriously about running fluid in the tires.

pbreedlove
04-29-2010, 07:33 PM
If you haven't bought yet make sure you are choosing a good dealer. You are not just buying a mower you are buying service too! I would have bought a scag or maybe a super z for a upgrade but my time with the dealer was well over. I chose to go with a Toro 34hp Master Z 60in. The dealer has went way out of his way to help me with a mower (hustler z 25hp 60in) that I purchased elsewhere. It spoke alot and now I am more than confident in my ability to make money because a dealer will back me up if I have a problem. By the way the Toro Master Z is amazing on hills and like the other fellow said the after cut appearance is unmatched (Turbo Force Deck).

groundworks
04-29-2010, 11:27 PM
Running wide open means nothing, some mower manufactures run the RPM's lower than the engine manufacture recommends to keep warranty issues down and limit blade tip speed due to lack of quality steel in the blades, decks, and spindle bearings. Choppers usually come with a tiny tach for an hour meter so you can monitor engine RPM since governer springs can stretch and lose RPM's over time. You would be surprised how much of a difference only 200-300 RPM can make in deck vacuum. EVERY mower I've tached out was low, some as low as 2,700 RPM. My walk behind tached at 3,000, I upped it to 3,600 and it now stripes very well and it didn't stripe at all before. Many chopper guys run the engines at 3,800 under load, but I'm not going to recommend that since I don't want to be held responsible for your engine durability. I run Amsoil in everything and usually run 3,600-3,700 under load (PTO engaged). I've even changed deck pulleys a full inch to gain better blade tip speed and have even gotten MTD's to stripe without a kit (blade tip speed on those is only 14,000 fpm compared to most commercial mowers' 19,000). Hope this helps, obviously there's different deck designs, but the blade tip speed and blade lift is going to be the determining factor for striping since you primarily need a lot of vacuum for striping.

Steve's Lawn Care
04-30-2010, 07:21 AM
well i still havnt bought yet but ive narrowed it down to the scag wild cat or the next gen lazer z both have great dealers and both are great machines after reviewing and testing many mowers i found that i like the 2 the best. The lazer Z with out a doubt is the best preforming mower and its safe to say no other mower matches its abilitys everything on the mower is set up perfect i was blown away and its a beast on hillsides. the lazer z from my dealer is $10,900 before taxes. The scag wild cat was also a very good mower its cut and discharge was pretty much the same beautiful quality as the exmark. the wild cat from my dealer is around 9600 which is a big difference and i cant see spending more for the exmark when i found the cut qualty a spot on match....

Groundworks... Thank U very much for your information i know RPMs and blade speed make a huge difference but i never thought of modifing my mowers to raise them from factory. I have an old walkbehind i was thinking about raising the rpms on it but not sure how to do that lol im sure U have information that would help me out. But dont worry i wouldnt hold U
responsible if the old girl cant take it haha

Byron3243
04-30-2010, 05:02 PM
Yea thanks groundworks for the rpm info my mower does not have a tach on it and didnt think about raising the rpms more I will definatly look into this as im not goin to get rid of it for awhile. Has any one tried putting fluid in these tires.

Steve's lawn care-let me know what mower you buy and how it works out

Nickymaggs
04-30-2010, 10:44 PM
Alright heres the deal i currently own a dixie chopper silver eagle 50inch cut zero trurn mower. Its an alright mower in some spots but sucks in most( my opinion).First its horrible on hillsides my old residential z was way better on slopes. Second it very very loud even with ear protecton my heads still buzzing after a long day of cutting. 3rd its cut :( pretty much everything about it lol im running the X blades on the mower and its doing better but in thinker grass the clipping disposal is horrible in my opinion, im a perfectionist when it comes to striping and a good clean cut and this mower just isnt cutting it for me i also need a 60inch deck. i did really like the fact that the shoot on the deck could be closed and the fact that the mower would stripe without a striper

I need others opionions major lol dealers just tell me there machine is the best no matter what brand and its very confusing haha

I have looked at pretty much every mower made lol.. but cant decide, i have however narrowed it down. I really liked the john deere z950 havnt got to demo it yet but seems really nice and the dealer is less than a mile from my home.. I also love the Exmark lazer Z only problem is the dealer is more than 50 miles away:( I also really like the scag mower its about 20 miles but super easy to get to. And last the Hustler super z its also about 20 miles way. Price is really not a big thing i just want a mower that does the best job. Any suggestings would really help me out :)

New member here. I was reading your post and decided to coment. While working in the lawn care business for 12 years I have ran many zurn turn mowers. Bobcat, Derby, Scag, Exmark, John deer, Dixie Chopper ect. The company I worked for had properties that zurn turns were cutting 8 hours a day 5 days a week (All commercial accounts). The company has 16 zurn turn mowers so local dealers would let us demo mowers for the day to try and sell their brand. Nothing and I mean nothing could keep up with the Exmark Lazer Z. We had 48" , 52" , 60" , 72", these Exmark mowers were awesome. The only mower that came close was the scag but the baging unit in my opinion is a bad design. With all this begin said I have just purchased a 2010 next Lazer z 48" 23 kohler comand pro. I am very disappointed with it's performance. Lack of power going up hills when mower is engaged. I called sales man he says something is wrong with the mower it sould not be doing that. I am taking it in on monday to get it serviced. Only time will tell if there is a problem. My main concern when buying a zero turn was its lack of power. None of the Lazer Z's i used to run (They were older models 2004,2005,2006) had any problem with power going up hills. I am 240LBS and they would go as fast as you wanted. My advice is ask to demo one that you are interested in.

clifderoche
05-01-2010, 07:06 AM
Running wide open means nothing, some mower manufactures run the RPM's lower than the engine manufacture recommends to keep warranty issues down and limit blade tip speed due to lack of quality steel in the blades, decks, and spindle bearings. Choppers usually come with a tiny tach for an hour meter so you can monitor engine RPM since governer springs can stretch and lose RPM's over time. You would be surprised how much of a difference only 200-300 RPM can make in deck vacuum. EVERY mower I've tached out was low, some as low as 2,700 RPM. My walk behind tached at 3,000, I upped it to 3,600 and it now stripes very well and it didn't stripe at all before. Many chopper guys run the engines at 3,800 under load, but I'm not going to recommend that since I don't want to be held responsible for your engine durability. I run Amsoil in everything and usually run 3,600-3,700 under load (PTO engaged). I've even changed deck pulleys a full inch to gain better blade tip speed and have even gotten MTD's to stripe without a kit (blade tip speed on those is only 14,000 fpm compared to most commercial mowers' 19,000). Hope this helps, obviously there's different deck designs, but the blade tip speed and blade lift is going to be the determining factor for striping since you primarily need a lot of vacuum for striping.

How do you increase the rpm's on a 19 hp kawasaki? I run a 52" Hustler Mini Z with this engine and I wish it had more power. There is no tach on this machine, only an hour meter.

groundworks
05-01-2010, 01:09 PM
Let me rephrase my comment as to not put myself into a liability issue. I'm not saying to raise the RPM (at least above the engine specs), simply set it back to the engine manufacture specs of running 3,600 RPM under load Also take note that not ALL engine manufactures have the same RPM limit, but look up your engine model and see what RPM the horsepower was rated at...but most are 3,600. Pretty much every 4 cycle mower engine has a governer, which has a spring attached to the governer lever from the engine to the carb assembly. It's normally as simple as bending the mounting point on the carb assembly back towards the carb to put more tension on the spring. The hardest part is sometimes getting a pair of needle nose pliers in that area to bend it. Most commercial engines should also have an adjustment bolt as a stop as well so no chance of over revving, it may be as simple as adjusting that bolt, or you might have to adjust both. As far as if you don't have a tach, there are many inductive models out there, when I was working for Deere back in the day we used a vibration style that had a spring sticking out and when the spring was still, that was your RPM. The inductives are nice, you can even pick ones off of Ebay for about $30-$50 that are both an hour meter and tach, usually use their own battery but some take power off the main battery and just wrap a wire around a spark plug wire. You can also get an inductive (what I used when I was working for Scag, Billy Goat, Sutech, Sarlo, BearCat, and Echo) that looks like a remote and you just point to a spark plug wire, has settings for mulit-cylinder engines as well. Opamma I think was the most reliable.

Byron3243
05-02-2010, 10:33 AM
I was wrong there is a adjustable baffle under the front of the dixie chopper silver eagle. It was all the way up. I adjusted it all the way down and man what a diffenece. The mower stripes much better and also has a lot more even cut. I am now much happier with it now. I caint figure out why they dont put it down from the factory. I just need to figure out how to check the rpm's now and make sure its running out high enough. Thanks groundworks.

groundworks
05-02-2010, 11:00 AM
Glad it did the trick for you! If it was adjusted all the way up you were getting blowout and loosing a lot of deck vacuum. Choppers really are great mowers, usually for quality of cut and striping it's a toss up between them and Exmarks. The deciding factor is usually the type of grass in your area and dealer support. I will say that Choppers do have the advantage of being easier to work on in the field. Go do some research on tires for something more aggressive for hills and you should be very happy with it. If you stay with a turf saver style, make sure you get something with lots of siping (very small slits in the tread just like snow tires), but I recommend the Turf Trax that come on the Coatsville Classics. They are a bar style that keeps the bars intertwined so it's less likely to tear up turf in turns. I have run a V-style bar with great results and just be careful with my turns. Only time I ever tore up turf was backing up with a heavy lawn roller and turning at the same time (and that was with my Chopper). As for RPM's, you could adjust it yourself with a tach or your dealer will be happy to adjust it for you. To see how well bar style tires do on steep banks, do a search on youtube for banks mowers or convertible mower banks, there's a company that converts mowers for steep hill sides and the main thing they change is going to a bar style tread. Very impressive videos, even run dually tires on a walk behind.

Byron3243
05-03-2010, 06:24 PM
The tires that im running now are the turf boss, and they do ok going up slopes but coming down is a diffrent story. They are a bar type tire that comes stock on a lot of choppers. Its prob the same thing groundworks is talking about. Most of the slopes i get on i have to go sideways, and thats when i have the problems. I am a full time excavator with a part time lawn care business so slopes dont bother me. I may just be asking to much for a mower as im used to being on slopes with a dozer. I have thought about trying a less rough tire becouse i have to be so careful with them but im scared to try anything else and then i wont be able to do anything on a slope. I guess my next try is to put fluid in tires. I have a friend that is a heavy equipment mechanic and he said he could check my rpms. I am just worried turning it up might hurt the engine. Well thanks all for the input.

Steve's Lawn Care
05-03-2010, 10:57 PM
Bryon this totaly just blew my mine i also forgot about the baffle!! lol i had the deck off over winter and was woundering what the point of it was hah im gona adjust mine and hopefully im as please as U are :D

groundworks
05-03-2010, 11:34 PM
As long as you are running 3,600RPM, that's what is recommended by the engine manufacture and Dixie Chopper, it'll be fine since it's within everone's specs. Some guys run up to 3,800 and still get good durability, but I'm gonna say stick with 3,600. If you want extra durability, run a decent Synthetic. I swear by Amsoil (the really nice Choppers come with an Amsoil bypass filtrations system), but I'm also an Amsoil dealer. Any good synthetic is fine, Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, stuff along those lines....will help with heat, get a little more power to the blades, and since it won't break down like dino oil, add a lot of protection. May consider going synthetic on your grease too, get a little more power to your blades and keep those spindle bearings longer, trailer bearings too. Ever take some regular grease in your palm and mix it with water to see it turn to mud in a few seconds just like regular oil.....then think about all that morning dew, not to mention those guys that mow in or right after rain. I'm all about making the most out of what you have, so I use every trick on the book. My bad on the tires, Turf Boss is what I meant. You could go more aggressive by going bar type or or even ATV knobby type, but take it easy on turns.....or you'll be digging up divots more than cutting grass. I've heard of guys having decent luck with tire chains or tire weights.....but you wouldn't see any of that on my stuff, get something that works right in the first place. You could also try letting a couple of psi out of your tires, give you a slightly larger contact patch and more flex over uneven turf...works for mudding and rock crawling. Might give you a slightly cushier ride too :)

Byron3243
05-04-2010, 04:43 PM
I currently am using Lucas oil in my mower now but I dont think its synthetic. Does synthetic oil really help with heat? In the hot months my mower does get pretty hot. I prob should use a synthetic grease at least on the spindles. I use a heavy duty grease that i use for heavy equipment but its not synthetic. Them spindles do spin fast as hell. With You talking about spinning up divots i have to be careful now exspeacially when its not flat. I only run about 6 lbs. in my rear tires now and it definatly helps and is not as rough.

Steve's Lawn Care
05-04-2010, 07:05 PM
im a firm believer in full synthetic oil i run it in everything. If U look at engines that have been torn down and have run with full synthetic it is amazing how clean they still look inside almost as if they were just put together. Synthetics do help cut down friction which in trun would help with heat.. bryon i also adjusted the baffle all the way down and it cut a lot smoother and seemed to do a whole lot better all around i was pretty happy might keep the mower a lil longer now that it seems to be cutting a whole lot better lol

groundworks
05-05-2010, 08:37 AM
Steve is absolutely correct. Less friction is less heat, plus a synthetic won't break down over time or with high heat to allow for protection 100% of the time rather just up to a certain temp. Synthetics will also have significantly less boil off, so your oil level will stay more consistant. That's why you see engines using synthetics looking so great when torn down, because the oil doesn't breakdown with the high temps and better lubrication all around.....also go at least midgrade on fuel because it's a mix of regular and premium. The regular doesn't have detergents, the premium has the most detergents. When I worked for Echo in the warranty dept we could tell if a synthetic 2 cycle oil was used and if a premium fuel was used....if it wasn't, not covered under warranty as is states in the manual to use a JSO certified oil and premium fuel. Oh and for you guys running 2 cycle still, STAY AWAY FROM REGULAR PLUS with slightly higher octane rating for less money. I've seen 2 month old engines destroyed by this crap, it's old gas with more ethanol added to up the octane rating. Also always shake the fuel tank before starting it, the ethanol only needs a few minutes to settle to the bottom of the tank for a dry (no oil mix, ethanol only) start-up. Less friction will also free up a little power and should give you a little better fuel economy. I know even the cheapest Amsoil is rated for 7,500 miles, and the best is rated at 35,000 miles (with an Amsoil Ea filter), I have been using the XL series and changing oil and filter every 100 hours rather than 50 hours. For you guys running 50 hours a week or so, means half as many oil changes with better results. Lucas is a decent oil, but I think it's still a petrolium base with a lot of modifiers added. I'd at least go to a semi-synthetic...course I've been running full synthetic for over a decade, Mobil-1 before I knew about Amsoil. I change the oil in my truck every 15,000 miles since I tow with it and I've modded it heavily, currently have 151,000 miles and hope for another 100,000 (using series 2000 and Ea filters).

Byron3243
05-05-2010, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the info guys I think you have me convinced to switch. What about desiels do they have a synthetic oil for them? Im glad ur happier with the mower steve I know I am the cut is a whole lot better. Do any of you guys run no flat front tires I am pondering on these.

groundworks
05-06-2010, 01:20 AM
I know Amsoil does have a a couple full synthetics for diesels, motorcycles, just about anything. I'm sure other brands do as well. Another good product to consider is the Fitch Fuel catalyst, I've been using those for 5 years as well, and they make those for diesels as well. I've never had to clean a carb since I started using them. I've thought about the flat free tires, but have never really had a need, between tire Slime and plugs, I feel I'm covered.

Byron3243
05-06-2010, 09:09 PM
What is Fitch Fuel? I was having a lot of prob with my tires goin flat, But its not as bad since i put slime in them. I was just wondering about the flat free tires. My only worry is if I try to put fluid in the back tires that they will have to take out the slime. Im not sure about that though:D

Steve's Lawn Care
05-06-2010, 10:53 PM
flat free frount tires would be great.. i seem to have problems blowing the fancy junk paper thin tires of the frount of the mower( just another nail in the coffin for the dixie chopper brand lol) altho im a lil happier with the cut im still gona get a new mower within the next month... after demo after demo i do believe ill be buyin the Scag tiger cat with the 61inch velocity plus.. the turf tiger was way to big of a mower and bottomed out an awful lot and seemed to not contor the ground well. Now im not brand loyal to any mower but as hard as it is to believe this mower altho 4 thousand dollars cheaper than the Exmark laser Z blew it out of the water in my books.. the tiger cat is low and wide and held hills better than the exmark next gen lazer. its cut was a spot on match with the lazer. it is amazing how much better these mowers are comparied to my silver eagle its actually kinda embarassing:(.. after demoing many mowers in real cutting conditions( wet,dry,tall and wet) i found many good and many bad. I found the best to be the Scag tiger cat(compact yet perfect) also liked the scag wild cat. The next gen lazer z was also a beast of a mower also got a 10 out of 10 in my books only down fall would be its 12dollor price tag(after taxes) also really liked the ferris 2000z and would also recommend it but only with the iCD deck i found the suspension to be a lil wierd tho after about an acre i think i was getting sea sick lol( but thats me) I also found the hustler z to be a suprisingly good mower 8 out of 10 i liked it better than the super z. pretty much same mower just cheaper altho the super z goes 15 mph theres no need for that its impossible to stay on the seat if your in a yard lol... Now for the mowers i wouldnt recommend well first off anything from the dixie chopper line... the john deere 950a i tested was a clumper for sure, the MOD deck even with the shoot open still shot clumps under the back of the mower deck:confused:.. the bad boy mower i tested also scored low, bad on hills and its cut was about the same as my silver eagle. The toro z master i tested was a little clumpy and its cut wasnt lazer smooth like the exmark and the scag. also the z master didnt stripe well at all.. i know toro owns exmark but that means nothing Exmark shares none of its secrets with toro the toro rep even admitted that to me.. theres still a few more mowers id like to test but more than likely my next mower will be the tiger cat

groundworks
05-07-2010, 09:33 AM
Here's the link to Fitches website. http://www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/ I've found it does work, perhaps not as well as advertised. It's best attribute is to stabilize fuel, the other results are minimal (it's been tested to kill the bacteria that grows in fuel including diesel). However having to store your units all winter and going to start up the next season, I've never had to clean a carb. As improbable as it sounds, I've actually noticed some benefits from those ionizing magnets as well. An ex had a poor idling Saturn that also took quite a few cranks to start, with some VERY strong neomagnets on the fuel line, it actually did level the idle immediately and started faster. I think most of these MPG adders will see the most benefits with worn parts, but still help a little even with new parts. I've done everything except for an underdrive pulley to my truck and have gained a full 7 mpg. I have a 2003 Dodge Ram with the Hemi, 4 door 4X4 short bed. When I got it I was getting 13.5mpg highway (which is actually typical), I'm now getting 21mpg. But i did a LOT to it, programmer, ceramic coated headers, iridium plugs, Amsoil everywhere, higher psi in the tires, electric fans, high flow cat and cat back, cold air induction, ram air scoop to the cold air induction, throttle body spacer, Fitch Fuel catalyst, performance plug wires on the secondary plugs, neomagnets on the fuel lines, a couple degrees added to the timing, and a few things I'm sure I'm forgetting. Yeah it cost a bunch to do all of that, but over my current 150k+ miles, +7mpg adds up (not to mention the benefit of the extra power from all of that). Gained 3-4mpg while towing the enclosed trailer loaded too, from 9mpg to 12-13mpg. Best I've seen is following a semi truck over a long period of time and running 55mph....saw a legit 25mpg on a full size, 4X4, 4 door truck. I also run the Fitch in my WRX just as a precaution since I've gone to a much larger turbo and want all the peace of mind I can get. I run them in every mower I've got except the 21" pushers, also great results as a fuel stabilizer for my bikes since I don't have much time to take them out. As with anything, plenty of people discrediting these things...yet never used them. Also plenty of reputable people and magazines that report fair to good results that have actually tested them. Snake oil is snake oil....but results are results. Synthetic oil used to be a "snake oil" too, discredited by major oil manufactures. For the price of these, not having to deal with the time to clean carbs alone is worth it. If you haven't figured it out yet, I've been a wrench for almost 2 decades and been a racer almost as long.

Steve's Lawn Care
05-07-2010, 11:37 PM
i correct myself on what i said about the hustler mowers being an 8 out of 10 i tested the hustler z and super z today again... only this time for about an hour i completely feel in love with the hustler z. I can not believe how stable it was on a hill side. it also handled the tall grass very very well i can seriously tell no difference in the cut and striping between the lazer z the scag and the hustler.. My hustler dealer was super nice an was willing to sell me the hustler z which is brand new with zero hours as a demo and dealer cost which is 7400!!!! its final price would be 7900 with tax which i find to be a super deal

Byron3243
05-09-2010, 08:39 AM
Thats a lot cheaper then the others a couple thousand is a lot of money when buying a mower. There is a lot of people around here that are running the hustlers. Gravely is also a big name around here, but I personally have never been on one. How is the service at your hustler dealer, for me service means alot. Our hustler dealer here seems to be pretty good. My dad has a residential grade hustler for his lawn and its so low to the ground its awsome on a slope. I dont think you could turn that thing over at all.

Steve's Lawn Care
05-09-2010, 09:05 AM
The dealer is super nice and suport seems great he stocks a lot of after market blades for the mower even. I really think its a great mower for cut quality and just over all build of the mower. The Hustler Z with the 12cc pumps is in my mind far better than the super Z. the super Z has 21cc pumps and the pumps are almost 2 big, they wine way to much and it kinda seems underpowered.. but the hustler z is a little lower to the ground and is the perfect balance for engine and pumps and it handles hills amazing. And for the price my god!!!! i payed 7400 for my dixie and that things a dynosaur lol

Byron3243
05-10-2010, 08:35 PM
I have never been on a hustler z just the super z and whatever my dads is. Your chopper must not be very old if you paid 7400 i bought mine for 6200 and the next year they shot up 1000 dollors I think I have had mine for three years. I just bought mine to do my lawn and 2 others under the table, now I have a part time business. Is your dealer willing to take your chopper in on trade.

Steve's Lawn Care
05-16-2010, 12:10 AM
i ended up buying the hustler z with the 60inch deck and im very pleased with the mower it is a huge improvement over the dixie chopper. its so much lower and wider and its cut qualty far better than that of the dixie. I decided not to trade my chopper in and plan to just sell it out right.. i may actually just end up keeping it because things are getting pretty busy for me and i would consider hiring someone if i could find someone i could trust. but yes i bought my chopper new last year and i believe the dealer i bought it from is selling my same model mower for 8100 now lol

ill post some comparison pictures of the to mowers soon

Steve's Lawn Care
05-17-2010, 08:06 AM
with the mowers side by side U can really see how much lower everything on the hustler is makes a huge difference

pro.turfpm
05-17-2010, 08:55 AM
Steves Lawn Care:

Hustler: ive never used one, heard their a fast mower. but fast really doesnt mean anything. going fast just means more wear and tear on your machine through bumpy yards. i heard their biggest problems is the pumps going bad and having to replace them gets pricey. i have buddies that run them that like them and some dont like them.

Exmark: i ran one of those for a couple years. not a bad machine. stripes pretty good. had its problems hear and their. i think their bagging system is better than scags. i dont like how their new models have the deck hanging out 6 inches on one side and the other side the deck is even with rear tire. if your a person that uses your whole deck when mowing to make your stripe that off sided stripe just doesnt look right in my eyes.

Scag: the turf tigers are the only machine that i run now. i love them. pretty good on hills. they are just a tank. they weigh more than most mowers. they are built like a tank and you can feel that when you just sit on them. the frame will outlast the motor, pending on how long you keep your equipment. the only problem is their so heavy that if you use it on a rainy day or a yard that tends to be wet a lot youll leave grooves in the ground. i love the way they stripe. i like to see the tire marks in the stripes. i will post some pictures up to show. i would personally get the scag if you havent already made your decision. i didnt read all the replies.

Derek

Steve's Lawn Care
05-17-2010, 01:02 PM
well my hustler z is no faster than the tirf tiger and speed has nothing to do with the quality of a mower in my mind also. the hustler super z will go 15 mph but it is the one with the pump problems they are just way to big at 21cc. theres just a lot of lag in them probably why they go out. i demoed a tirf tiger and really liked the way it cut and it was built really well. after demoing the tirf tiger and hustler z for around 5 hour each i found the tiger to be just to long.. the back just hangs to far over the rear tired for a lot of the yards i cut and it tended to bottom out. Dont get me wrong i love the scag tirf tiger the hustler z was just a more compact mower. and they are also built very i talked to 3 guys that mowed with hustler mowers and had over 1000 hours on them with no problems.

Byron3243
05-17-2010, 04:33 PM
Hope all goes well with the new mower