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swstout
02-02-2010, 10:13 AM
That's $3,800,000,000,000.00
That's $1,090,000.00 per person in the United States - population 350,000,000 (350 million)

How will this be covered? Why with a $1.1 trillion tax increase! - $3,142,000.00 per person

But remember, no families earning under $250,000.00 per year will see a dime's worth of tax increase.

The numbers just don't add up!

Government efficiency must be the answer. Let's see What has been done in the last year?

Cash for Clunkers - up to $4,500.00 per car
This program cost the taxpayers $24,000.00 per car
Up to $4,500.00 per car and $19,500.00 in "administrative" costs! (5.33 times the cost of the credit)

New home purchase credit - Up to $8,000.00 per home.
This program costs the taxpayers $41,000.00 per home
Up to $8,000.00 per home and $33,000.00 in "administrative" costs! (3.18 times the cost of the credit)

Eructation - Pell Grants
$17.5 billion to cover an additional 1,000,000 students
That's $17,500.00 per grant (maximum $8,000.00

Does anyone see a pattern developing here? Like a 500% (administrative) cost overrun on all government programs.

What will this budget do to this? http://www.usdebtclock.org/ (http://www.usdebtclock.org/)

These people are accountable, but only at the ballot box!

Let your representatives know that a vote for this program to make government bigger is a vote for their removal.

Maybe it's time to embrace the Chicago plan for political expediency! "Vote early, and vote often"

Steve

Steve
02-02-2010, 10:23 AM
Do you think we will ever see a government employee paycut of 10% or more across the board?

swstout
02-02-2010, 10:31 AM
Do you think we will ever see a government employee paycut of 10% or more across the board?

:eek: Sure! It will happen just before California falls into the Pacific.

Steve

Steve
02-02-2010, 11:10 AM
I was reading an article before on how this larger deficit will impact the United State's influence throughout the world.

I don't know how we can basically spend ourselves out of a recession. It seems like that is what is being attempted.

turfmaster
02-02-2010, 11:38 AM
People voted change. They sure got change. I keep hearing the liberals say they inherited this financial mess from Bush. This is true to a point. I thought Bush spent like crazy for a so called conservative however Obama's budget of 1.56 trillion is over 3 times of Bush's last budget.

I think they could have given each tax payer a voucher for $10,000 to purchase durable goods and this economy would be booming out of this recession with people hiring and the government would be way ahead fiscally as well. :eek::eek:

SuperiorPower
02-02-2010, 01:06 PM
That's $3,800,000,000,000.00
That's $1,090,000.00 per person in the United States - population 350,000,000 (350 million)

How will this be covered? Why with a $1.1 trillion tax increase! - $3,142,000.00 per person

But remember, no families earning under $250,000.00 per year will see a dime's worth of tax increase.

The numbers just don't add up!
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If I am correct, some how this math is wrong. I did the math and according to my math, each citizen's share of the 3.8 trillion is $10,857.1428571428571, just under $11,000 per person. But that is just for the current budget.

As far as the debt clock, I was curious where we stand compared to when I posted the debt clock back on December 6. I decided to look for the post on my forum since I figured it would be easier to find than on here. So I found that our debt, per citizen, on December 6 2009 was $39,220 (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,194.0.html) but today it is $40,038, over $800 more in less than 2 months. That is over $400 per MONTH, per citizen!!!! I can not afford an additional $400 per month payment... Also, the "per taxpayer" debt is $113,083...

Yesterday I was listening to a Christian talk show when they said that we, as a nation (with the federal proposed budget, will be overspending by something like $43,000 or $45,000 PER SECOND!! This is not per minute, per hour, or per day, but per second!!! This is ridiculous and unacceptable. I couldn't do that with my personal finances and get by with it very long.....

swstout
02-02-2010, 01:48 PM
If I am correct, some how this math is wrong. I did the math and according to my math, each citizen's share of the 3.8 trillion is $10,857.1428571428571, just under $11,000 per person. But that is just for the current budget.

As far as the debt clock, I was curious where we stand compared to when I posted the debt clock back on December 6. I decided to look for the post on my forum since I figured it would be easier to find than on here. So I found that our debt, per citizen, on December 6 2009 was $39,220 (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,194.0.html) but today it is $40,038, over $800 more in less than 2 months. That is over $400 per MONTH, per citizen!!!! I can not afford an additional $400 per month payment... Also, the "per taxpayer" debt is $113,083...

Yesterday I was listening to a Christian talk show when they said that we, as a nation (with the federal proposed budget, will be overspending by something like $43,000 or $45,000 PER SECOND!! This is not per minute, per hour, or per day, but per second!!! This is ridiculous and unacceptable. I couldn't do that with my personal finances and get by with it very long.....

My mistake. I missed 3 zero's in my canceling out.

The point is, we can't spend our way out of a recession, We have to GROW out of it. Growth is left out of this plan BY Design!

Steve

SuperiorPower
02-02-2010, 02:01 PM
The point is, we can't spend our way out of a recession, We have to GROW out of it. Growth is left out of this plan BY Design!

Steve

How true. You know, the politicians we have in right now are some of the most selfish people I have ever seen. All they care about is padding their own pockets and our children will have to pay the tab....

After I posted the last time I got this in email. I think you all might like it: Is our Government being responsible (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,271.0.html)?

swstout
02-02-2010, 03:32 PM
How true. You know, the politicians we have in right now are some of the most selfish people I have ever seen. All they care about is padding their own pockets and our children will have to pay the tab....

After I posted the last time I got this in email. I think you all might like it: Is our Government being responsible (http://lawnmowerforum.superiorpowerequip.com/index.php/topic,271.0.html)?

The list goes on and on

Administration on Aging (AoA) (http://www.aoa.gov/)
Administration on Developmental Disabilities (http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/add/)
Agricultural Marketing Service (http://www.ams.usda.gov/)
Agricultural Research Service (http://www.ars.usda.gov/)
Agriculture Department (USDA) (http://www.usda.gov/)
AMTRAK (National Railroad Passenger Corporation) (http://www.amtrak.com/)
Bankruptcy Courts (http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts.html)
Federal judicial districts handle bankruptcy matters in bankruptcy court. Bankruptcy cases cannot be filed in state court.
Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services (DHS) (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis)
Bureau of Industry and Security (formerly the Bureau of Export Administration) (http://www.bis.doc.gov/)
Bureau of Public Debt (http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/) I just love this one
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (formerly the Health Care Financing Administration) (http://www.cms.hhs.gov/)
Citizenship and Immigration Services Bureau (formerly Immigration and Naturalization Service) (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis)
Commerce Department (http://www.commerce.gov/)
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) (http://www.cbo.gov/)
Constitution Center (http://www.constitutioncenter.org/)

These are just some of the 556 US Government Departments and Aencies. Wonder how these are doing? How they actually help the American People.

Steve

Steve
02-03-2010, 05:43 AM
Will inflation ultimately be the answer? If the government keeps printing money, the value of it is less and therefor the debt is less?

Do you think this will be the way it goes?

SuperiorPower
02-03-2010, 02:51 PM
Will inflation ultimately be the answer? If the government keeps printing money, the value of it is less and therefor the debt is less?

Do you think this will be the way it goes?

No. I think and absolutely believe the more money we print, the more we will have to pay. Consider this. You buy a house for $150,000 and then they print a lot of money. The dollar value goes down to half of what it was before. On the Gold standard, before the money was printed, you house was worth XX amount of ounces of gold. Now it is still worth XX amount of gold. But in cash, your house is now worth $300,000. At least this is the way I understand it.

I have heard say that gold and oil stay the same relative value when compared to each other. They may fluctuate slightly, but stays relatively the same, no matter what currency does. Example: when Gold was about $1,000 per ounce oil was about $100 per barrel. I was told they generally stay like that, about 10 to 1.

Inflation is simply (at least the way I understand it) that we say things are worth more and more and more. Essentially what we are doing is making the dollar worth less. If my house was worth $100,000 4 years ago, but now sells for $125,000, despite me making no improvements to quality or curb appeal, it is simply due to the inflation. Bottom line is, I have not increased my homes quality or physical worth, but it sells for more. Where is the difference? The dollar is now worth less than 4 years ago. Though in reality, 4 years ago when I bought my house, it was likely worth more than it is now, but that is simply due to the economy. So physical property values and the gold standard do not completely adhere to each other.

Any thoughts or clarification anyone? I am not sure I understand this correctly.

swstout
02-03-2010, 03:08 PM
I think it is worse than that! According to the CBO (Congressional Budget Office), under the current budget $0.42 of every $1.00 spend by government is either borrowed or printed. This is a double hit to the economy. We are borrowing money with the prospect of repaying it with a diminished dollar.

If the new budget is passed, that means that almost $1.6 trillion will be either borrowed or printed! Incidentally, that is almost 2X the oft reported Bush Deficit Obama was supposedly saddled with.

Steve

SuperiorPower
02-06-2010, 05:00 AM
Ok, so if I understand what you are saying this is what happens: we borrow $1.6 trillion, but if the dollar is worth only $0.50 on the $1 (of its current value) when we go to repay, we would actually have to repay $3.2 trillion?

swstout
02-06-2010, 10:41 AM
Ok, so if I understand what you are saying this is what happens: we borrow $1.6 trillion, but if the dollar is worth only $0.50 on the $1 (of its current value) when we go to repay, we would actually have to repay $3.2 trillion?

$3.2 trillion if we don't have inflation and, many economists are predicting Super Infaltion.

Steve

Steve
02-07-2010, 05:18 AM
many economists are predicting Super Infaltion

What causes Super Inflation and what are the results of it?

swstout
02-07-2010, 06:39 AM
What causes Super Inflation and what are the results of it?

Inflation is a sustained increase in the aggregate price level. Superinflation or hyperinflation is very high inflation.

Although the threshold is arbitrary, economists generally reserve the term to describe episodes when the monthly inflation rate is greater than 50 percent. At a monthly rate of 50 percent, an item that cost $1 on January 1 would cost $130 on January 1 of the following year.
 
What Causes Hyper Inflation

Usually, countries with hyper inflation have the following features

Large government debt, usually over 100% of GDP

Printing Money. To cope with meeting the debt, the government starts printing money. This decreases the value of existing money creating a multiplier effect where people lose confidence in money and keep demanding wage increases.
 
Reluctance / inability to deal with it. When Germany experienced hyperinflation in the 1920s it was not a phenomena they fully appreciated or understood. Their primary fear at the time was unemployment. They feared that unemployment could precipitate a Communist Revolution so they didn't want to do anything to reduce demand and possibly cause a recession.

Steve

Steve
02-08-2010, 04:35 AM
When Germany experienced hyperinflation in the 1920s it was not a phenomena they fully appreciated or understood. Their primary fear at the time was unemployment. They feared that unemployment could precipitate a Communist Revolution so they didn't want to do anything to reduce demand and possibly cause a recession.

That is certainly interesting. And then look where it led!