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tomcat172002
01-14-2010, 09:16 PM
The other day I went into my garage just to start up my Scag. Its winter here in Cleveland and there is about a foot of snow on the ground. I figured I would just start it up. Well the engine didn't turn over I was a little concerned so I got a space heater the other day just to warm up the garage. Well I went to start up the mower again and it wouldn't do anything. I accidently left the key in the on position. The battery was dead not a problem but the hours read like 2173 oh &**&&. I had about 146 hours when I put it into storage. OK what can or should I do???? My new machine is reading like a 8 year old work horse???? what now??? Help

Steve
01-15-2010, 01:13 AM
That is very interesting!

From what I have read, the meters can not be reset.

I thought the meter only ran when the motor was running and the spark plug was firing not when the key is left on.

Maybe you could take it apart and experiment with it?

picframer
01-15-2010, 06:10 AM
The other day I went into my garage just to start up my Scag. Its winter here in Cleveland and there is about a foot of snow on the ground. I figured I would just start it up. Well the engine didn't turn over I was a little concerned so I got a space heater the other day just to warm up the garage. Well I went to start up the mower again and it wouldn't do anything. I accidently left the key in the on position. The battery was dead not a problem but the hours read like 2173 oh &**&&. I had about 146 hours when I put it into storage. OK what can or should I do???? My new machine is reading like a 8 year old work horse???? what now??? Help

Call your dealership and explain you left the key on and what happened and you want the hour meter reset and at least here they will. I have seen this happen at Deere on tractors so I know it can be done, but get it done, it is very, very important in your case, a few hours fine but 2,000....boy that is out there.

I suspect you have burnt the points out of it by leaving the key on that long, personally because it's down time, I would take it to the dealership and ecplain what happened and ask them to go over it while resetting the hour meter.

Steve
01-15-2010, 11:56 AM
I suspect you have burnt the points out of it by leaving the key on that long

How does that happen? Is there current going through the points when the key is on?

picframer
01-15-2010, 07:09 PM
How does that happen? Is there current going through the points when the key is on?

Eli is the proper person to answer this (Superior) however basically yes, the points, condenser and coil, you have everything lit up and if it can't release then you have a problem, I have seen points back in my high school days when I rebuilt engines as a hobby, points welded together as the person left the key on whatever, could have been a motorcycle, lawn tractor etc.

The exception is a diesel, you could leave the key on forever and all you would do is run the hour timer up and eventually kill the battery, but that would generally take days, there would be no damage as a diesel only uses a glow plug and generally that is only on for 30 seconds max.

Steve
01-15-2010, 08:15 PM
the points, condenser and coil, you have everything lit up and if it can't release then you have a problem, I have seen points back in my high school days when I rebuilt engines as a hobby, points welded together as the person left the key on whatever, could have been a motorcycle, lawn tractor etc.

Ahhhh that makes sense. So even if you change the battery, if the points are welded together, the engine isn't going to start.

Maybe he could take them off and check to see if this is the case? If so, maybe there would be a way to ease them apart without breaking them? Or maybe simply replace them?

picframer
01-15-2010, 08:38 PM
Ahhhh that makes sense. So even if you change the battery, if the points are welded together, the engine isn't going to start.

Maybe he could take them off and check to see if this is the case? If so, maybe there would be a way to ease them apart without breaking them? Or maybe simply replace them?

In this case the mower is too new and still under warranty, if he takes anything apart then the warranty is out the window on a lot more than just the points, I would not touch it, take it to the dealer and have them service it and explain what happened so they can reset the hour meter.

As for doing it yourself, I could service whatever gear we have, tear any of their engines apart and rebuild them but I don't, I take them to the dealer or if I didn't have a dealer take it to someone like Eli (Superior Power on our site), some guys have the time to tinker and do a great job at it, in my case my time is better spent doing other things and I don't mind paying for the service I get. This way is something gets screwed up it's not my problem, I would take it back to whoever fixed it in the first place.

Steve
01-15-2010, 10:11 PM
In this case the mower is too new and still under warranty, if he takes anything apart then the warranty is out the window

That is a very good point.

biodale
01-29-2010, 11:39 PM
My hour meter is wired to the electric clutch. So the meter is running only when the blades are turning. The few hours when the engine is idling is not important (in my mind). It will keep an accident like you described from happening.
For what it is worth.

Steve
01-30-2010, 09:05 PM
Was this something you were able to change or was this the way the manufacturer set it up?

biodale
01-30-2010, 10:24 PM
That is the way the john deere manual said to do it. So when I added it that is what I did. The wiring was already there for it.

SuperiorPower
01-31-2010, 12:27 AM
Sorry for the slow response guys, this thread started while my internet was down and I found it just now. First I will address points and condensor and then I will tell you why you probably don't have to worry about that in this case.

To answer the question about the points, like Andy said, if your engine has points and the ignition was left on for any extended period of time (and the points were closed), the points are most likely burned up. When the points are closed, it creates a complete circuit that is in essence a dead short. And not only are the points probably shot, but so are the rest of the ignition components.

The problem with leaving your ignition turned on is that this dead short will cause your points to burn up and can ruin the coil and possibly other ignition components and wiring. Below is an image I threw together with the paint program. The link below the image is a diagram I found online, though it is a nicer diagram, it is for a multi-cylinder engine like in a car and thus has an extra component in it: the distributor.

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae152/superiorpower/PointsDiagramwithexplanation.jpg

Points diagram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Car_ignition_system.svg)

Now, the good news is, all the newer engines will no longer have points and condensors. They will all have a solid-state ignition system that is typically not even hooked up to the battery. This is good on multiple levels, specifically because you can start an engine with a low or dead battery if the engine has a pull start. Also, in a case like this where the ignition is left in the "on" position, it will not damage the ignition system since the battery is not even hooked up to it.

Steve
01-31-2010, 09:41 PM
Now, the good news is, all the newer engines will no longer have points and condensors. They will all have a solid-state ignition system that is typically not even hooked up to the battery.

Does this mean on the newer machines that are solid state, if you leave the key on, it won't keep the engine hour meter going? Or it will?

SuperiorPower
02-01-2010, 12:42 AM
Does this mean on the newer machines that are solid state, if you leave the key on, it won't keep the engine hour meter going? Or it will?

The solid state ignition has nothing to do with the hour meter. If you leave the key on, it may still run the hour meter, depending how it is wired. It would be great if they wired them differently so that it would not run unless the engine is running or unless the blades are turned on. Depending on the wiring, it would not have to be that way I suppose, but sadly, most of them are wired that way.

The solid state ignition only means that the ignition components are not connected to the battery and should not be affected in any way if the key is left in the "on" position.

Steve
02-01-2010, 02:25 AM
Good to know! So ultimately it's very important to turn that key off no matter what!